Religious war is coming to America....

[jasonwill2]

War is hell. If they don't want to be killed they might consider not shooting rockets at their lethal neibor. It was 90% airstrikes and was not soldiers shooting civilians. I do not know why people assume this happens intentionally all the time. I have studied war of all ages. There is no advantage to be gained from shooting civilians. It always (always) winds up enraging the populous unless complete extermination is a possible reality. Look at Hitler's bombing of London. It just made the English madder. You must make up your mind what happened based on 20 sec sound bites by the liberal media. I saw so many claims of civilian strikes shown to be false that I stopped even considering them. It is Islam terror 101, start some stuff you can't finish and when it goes bad make false claims about how unjust you are being treated by the one they provoked. It has been shown over and over they actually start fights they know they can't win specifically so they can get on the tv and whine and cry to influence people. Apparently it is working on some people judgeing by your comments.

When no one is around at all, and an unarmed man walking down the street gets his head blown off at a couple of hundred feet by an Israeli soldier, it isn't no ******* accident.

I can get you videos and pictures if you don't believe me, but they are going to be very graphic.

In the Palestinian parliamentary elections held on January 25, 2006, Hamas won a plurality of 42.9% of the total vote and 74 out of 132 total seats (56%).[30][31] When Hamas assumed power the next month, the Israeli government and the key players of the international community, the United States and the EU refused to recognize its right to govern the Palestinian Authority. Direct aid to the Palestinian government there was cut off, although some of that money was redirected to humanitarian organizations not affiliated with the government.[32] The resulting political disorder and economic stagnation led to many Palestinians emigrating from the Gaza Strip.[33]


Hamas spokesman Moussa Abu Marzouk blamed the worsening situation on Israel, stating that the constant pressure of economic sanctions resulted in the "real explosion."[41] Associated Press reporter Ibrahim Barzak wrote an eyewitness account stating:

Today I have seen people shot before my eyes, I heard the screams of terrified women and children in a burning building, and I argued with gunmen who wanted to take over my home. I have seen a lot in my years as a journalist in Gaza, but this is the worst it's been.[42]
​

From 2006-2007 more than 600 Palestinians were killed in fighting between Hamas and Fatah.[43] In the aftermath of the Gaza War, a series of violent acts killed 54 Palestinians, while hundreds have claimed they were tortured.[44] 349 Palestinians were killed in fighting between factions in 2007. 160 Palestinians killed each other in June alone.[45]


So a guy gets elected democratically, and the United States and other "freedom loving" nations decide to cut off trade, making it destabilize into hell before Israel goes to take it over more or less? This sounds very fishy to me.

In July 2010, British prime minister David Cameron criticized the blockade, saying "Humanitarian goods and people must flow in both directions. Gaza cannot and must not be allowed to remain a prison camp."

I'd agree with this guy, the conflict is over yet still they blockade the whole ******* area.

These are civllian deaths because of the conflict, in response to four Israelis dying they strike back and kill 465? Just plain overkill, literally, and basically a crime against humanity. Saying "war is hell" doesn't justify **** when women and children are being burned alive in buildings.



source: Gaza Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[1robin]

When no one is around at all, and an unarmed man walking down the street gets his head blown off at a couple of hundred feet by an Israeli soldier, it isn't no ******* accident.

I am quite sure that did happen at times. However the general information given on the drive by media was so distorted that it was criminal. I have researched many of their claims years ago. One was an ammuntion dump that was said to be a private residential block. Turned out it had a huge tunnel under it that arms were smuggled through. Several others were supposedly Mosques and schools. They were, that is why the despicable terrorist cowards hid massive weapon stores and bomb making operations in them. They were so sure of Israel's benevolence that they did not think they would be hit. The Israelis hit them when they were deserted but all you saw in the news "was Israel targets school or Mosque".

I can get you videos and pictures if you don't believe me, but they are going to be very graphic.

Civilians get shot in war. That is why those people should quit shooting rockets. I am quite sure that the hatred that is this old has resulted in terrible acts, however a couple of pictures or incidents to which I could match twenty to one on or worse will never reveal the general conduct of the average soldier.

In the Palestinian parliamentary elections held on January 25, 2006, Hamas won a plurality of 42.9% of the total vote and 74 out of 132 total seats (56%).[30][31] although some of that money was redirected to humanitarian organizations not affiliated with the government.[32]

That sounds like exactly what should have been done. In fact it sounds extremely benevolent. I don't get the point it seems to prove my claim. They still sent aid even after people who deny Israel has a right to exist moved into land Israel through benevolence gave the Palestinians then shoot rockets and complain about how much money Israel gives them.

Hamas spokesman Moussa Abu Marzouk blamed the worsening situation on Israel, stating that the constant pressure of economic sanctions resulted in the "real explosion."[41] Associated Press reporter Ibrahim Barzak wrote an eyewitness account stating:

This is amazing. It is Israel's fault that we allowed the terrorists to take over the land Israel gave us and it is their fault we are starving because they will not give us more of their money even though we are shooting rockets at them. Simply amazing.

Today I have seen people shot before my eyes, I heard the screams of terrified women and children in a burning building, and I argued with gunmen who wanted to take over my home. I have seen a lot in my years as a journalist in Gaza, but this is the worst it's been.[42]

Then why not kick Hamas out and quit shooting rockets. Taking Israel's money and land and then shooting rockets at them or sniping across the border and then yelling fowl when they finally retaliate is despicable.

From 2006-2007 more than 600 Palestinians were killed in fighting between Hamas and Fatah

I have no idea what this was supposed to prove.

So a guy gets elected democratically, and the United States and other "freedom loving" nations decide to cut off trade, making it destabilize into hell before Israel goes to take it over more or less? This sounds very fishy to me.

If we elected Hitler would you expect the Jews to be fine with it. Decisions have consequences. You chose Satan's minions as your leaders do not be suprised when the children of God retaliate. We chose a wimp and our stock around the world has plummeted.

In July 2010, British prime minister David Cameron criticized the blockade, saying "Humanitarian goods and people must flow in both directions. Gaza cannot and must not be allowed to remain a prison camp."

This is rediculous. Israel only started just checking ships after they determined they were smuggling in arms as fast as oil money could by them. They seized boat loads of them but allowed anything else through. They always did and still do. This is whining because they are being searched. The answer is very simple, be gratefull for the land and the money others give you and quit shooting rockets and importing weapons and then getting mad when your ships are searched.

I'd agree with this guy, the conflict is over yet still they blockade the whole ******* area.

That conflict has existed since approx 1400Ad and will always exist, and only the naive would doubt that. Every single effort on behalf of peace Israel has made has only increased resistance and violence by the Arabs. The only thing their cowardly bully mentality respects is strength. That is why they returned the hostages that they had thumbed their nose at Carter about the night Reagan was innagurated. Reagan would not have put up with their garbage an dthey knew it. The only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing which seems about what you recomend.

These are civllian deaths because of the conflict, in response to four Israelis dying they strike back and kill 465?

THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE PREWAR ROCKETS.
over 8,600 rockets had been launched, leading to 28 deaths and several hundred injuries as well as widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life.[3] According to research done by the Social work department at the Sapir Academic college, Estimated 15,000 people from Sderot are suffering from PTSD and estimated 1000 are treated within the mental health community.
Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you keep poking a tiger with a stick over and over and over. He gets tired of it and takes your arm off and you sit in the mud and whine about how unfair the tiger is. Amazing. There is a very simple solution. Quit shooting rockets at your neibor. It is not Israel's fault they are far more lethal that the Arabs. The fact they hide weapons in schools and hospitals makes low body counts hard. Sometimes it is the only way to teach them to stop doing this. They however do not seem to care because they start up some new crap a little later every time. They are in effect killing their own children. No rockets and mortals no dead children. We killed people by the hundreds of thousands on purpose to bring Hitler's nightmare to an end and that has been called one of man kinds finest hours. Of course it is a little macab to think of it like that but no Hitler and no millions of Germans that went along and it would never have happened. No Pearl Harbor no Hiroshima. At least they were honorable to enough to admit defeat without whining and learn and grow from it. Another great man Winston Churchhill wanted in 1937 to kill Hitler then. People making the same kind of statements you have, said he was barbaric and that Hitler could be reasoned with. That mentality killed 50 million. I agree with Stonewall Jackson, one of the greatest generals who ever lived. He said the most benevolent war is total war. It is brutal but very short and the issue is resolved. If he was Israel's president no one would dare shoot rockets at him or declare that they had no right to exist. He would inagurate a nightmare for six months that would be a version of armegeddon and tens of thousands would die but that would be the end of this mess that has dragged on forever and will do so until Jesus does a similar version of that in the actuall armegeddon that is coming. War is extremely undesirable but if made necessary by an evil group then it should be ruthlessly prosecuted and quickly ended, that results in less total suffering. To fight is deplorable, but to allow evil to wipe out good is infinately more so.


Gaza War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NO ROCKETS, MORTARS, SNIPING ACROSS THE BORDER, AND DECLARING ISRAEL'S DESTRUCTION A RELIGIOUS DUTY AND THEN NO AIRSTRIKES AND CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. PRETTY SIMPLE.

 

[jasonwill2]

You chose Satan's minions as your leaders do not be suprised when the children of God retaliate.

While I'd have to look into the rest of your claims, THIS says a lot about your black-and-white beliefs and simplistic world view.

fyi the conflicts with Israel and Arabs isn't going back to 1400 as that was the crusades, and that was Christians and Muslims fighting OVER Israel, not Israel itself being a fighting side. Israel as it exists today has only been around since the 40's.

 

[1robin]

While I'd have to look into the rest of your claims, THIS says a lot about your black-and-white beliefs and simplistic world view.

My hypothetic beliefs about how to wage war are very black and white. Equivocation leads to far more suffering than swift action (Vietnam etc...). Sometimes it is not so clear but WW1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam were very clear. In fact Israel's middle east trouble is very clear even with the liberal media muddying the waters. It is very black and white when you give a group of people some land they have no claim on. Then you even pay them, plus allow supplies to go through your ports and roads. They then elect terrorists and begin shooting rockets and mortars at the people who did all that for them by the thousands. Not much gets clearer in human conflict. Add to it that Israel had been attacked by differening groups of their neibors without cause many times before. In fact many officials and leaders of their neiborring governments have said that Israel has no right to exist and has made statements to the effect that to wipe out Israel is a holy duty.

fyi the conflicts with Israel and Arabs isn't going back to 1400 as that was the crusades, and that was Christians and Muslims fighting OVER Israel, not Israel itself being a fighting side. Israel as it exists today has only been around since the 40's.

Oh ok. I didn't look it up and just gave a number off top of my head because it didn't matter. It is actually about 3000-3200 years ago that Abraham dissobeyed God which began this long sad tale.

 

[jasonwill2]

It is very black and white when you give a group of people some land they have no claim on.

If I didn't know any better I would think that you are referring to the fact that after World War II the Zion Movement managed to convince a bunch of people to steal Palestine from it's inhabitants and give it to a bunch of people who would be hated for living on that stolen and supposedly holy land.

It seems to me that if modern Israel was never founded, there would be a hell of a lot less tension in the Middle East.

Oh ok. I didn't look it up and just gave a number off top of my head because it didn't matter. It is actually about 3000-3200 years ago that Abraham dissobeyed God which began this long sad tale.

Get back to reality, the Israel we have today is not the same one that was there thousands of years ago, the linage is broken, and other people have been living there for a long, long time.

 

[Shermana]

the linage is broken

Oh really?

 

[jasonwill2]

Oh really?

I was saying that I don't see a linage between the ancient governments of Israel and the modern one.

I went ahead and made a topic on this, but I think you already saw it.

For those who didn't:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/historical-debates/139303-does-israel-have-right-palestine.html

 

[1robin]

If I didn't know any better I would think that you are referring to the fact that after World War II the Zion Movement managed to convince a bunch of people to steal Palestine from it's inhabitants and give it to a bunch of people who would be hated for living on that stolen and supposedly holy land.

There never was a Palestine. That is a Roman word for a group of people. Israel was there long long before any palestinians. They have never left. Some Hebrews have been there for over 4000 years. None of this matters anyway, we have what we have. It was determined by the UN as it should have been. The most peaceful way of settleing the issue is everybody stay where they are. There is no race of people on the same land they started out on. I believe Israel is the only example of a race that still has the same language, God, and land they held 3000 years ago that exists. The Palestinians that were there were offered passports/visas at one time and not a single one took it. They now have the highest standard of living of any Arabic citizens in the region, except the oil tyrant ruling families.

It seems to me that if modern Israel was never founded, there would be a hell of a lot less tension in the Middle East.

Israel is the only stable infuence in the region. There is not a race of people in the area Islam has not attacked. In fact every so often they attack themselves. They ran slaves out of Africa, made India give them Pakastan and then as usuall used it to attack them.

Get back to reality, the Israel we have today is not the same one that was there thousands of years ago, the linage is broken, and other people have been living there for a long, long time.

The only break was caused by other nations taking them captive. That is no more legitamite than what you falsely claim they did. There has no been a time in the last 4000 years that Hebrews did not live there. In no way what so ever are Palestians entitled to that land. There never was a Palestine and the UN determined I believe 33-13. All your equivication is moot. I don't care if you are anti-semitic, *edit* but you can't justify it by distorting Israel's history. *edit*

 

[Shermana]

I was saying that I don't see a linage between the ancient governments of Israel and the modern one.

I went ahead and made a topic on this, but I think you already saw it.

For those who didn't:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/historical-debates/139303-does-israel-have-right-palestine.html

Maybe Ben Gurion was a descendent of David, who knows?

 

[jasonwill2]

I don't care if you are anti-semitic, *edit* but you can't justify it by distorting Israel's history. *edit*

I'm not anti-Semitic, I have great respect for many Jewish people, their work and contributions to society, and their ability to not shove religious tracs in your face. I have also defended Arabs many times before from people who think they are all murderous extremists.

I get quite peeved when I meet the LHP person who misunderstands Jewish and sees it just the same as Christianity and judges the people for it, just as I do when I see people generalize Arabs. I am not Antisemitic. To be antisemitic is to be racist, and a racist I am not, nor have I ever been.

 

[1robin]

I'm not anti-Semitic, I have great respect for many Jewish people, their work and contributions to society, and their ability to not shove religious tracs in your face. I have also defended Arabs many times before from people who think they are all murderous extremists.

I did not say you were, I said if you were then.......

I get quite peeved when I meet the LHP person who misunderstands Jewish and sees it just the same as Christianity and judges the people for it, just as I do when I see people generalize Arabs. I am not Antisemitic. To be antisemitic is to be racist, and a racist I am not, nor have I ever been.

I did not say you were. I said

I don't care if you are anti-semitic

I should have added an "even" in between care and if. My bad, sorry. I meant whether you are or not you still can't distort Israel's record to prove anything.