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Remove Abraham Lincoln from the history books

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights. He even said this was "self evident" meaning an intelligent person could see it without proof. Where were the atheists 150 years ago? why were there no riots in the streets and calls for impeachment because of this obvious attempt to force religion on people? Today a politician would have to say all men are evolved equal and are endowed by evolution with certain rights. Surely all the little atheist children are offended when they read the history books and read about this attempt by Lincoln to force religion on them. and what does a teacher say when a student asks"what is a creator" and the teacher is only allowed to talk about evolution? the only solution is to remove all references to Lincoln from history books. this will also make the white supremasists happy because they do not want to read but the freeing of the slaves. so everyone wins.
 

McBell

Unbound
Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights. He even said this was "self evident" meaning an intelligent person could see it without proof. Where were the atheists 150 years ago? why were there no riots in the streets and calls for impeachment because of this obvious attempt to force religion on people? Today a politician would have to say all men are evolved equal and are endowed by evolution with certain rights. Surely all the little atheist children are offended when they read the history books and read about this attempt by Lincoln to force religion on them. and what does a teacher say when a student asks"what is a creator" and the teacher is only allowed to talk about evolution? the only solution is to remove all references to Lincoln from history books. this will also make the white supremasists happy because they do not want to read but the freeing of the slaves. so everyone wins.
what exactly did you want to debate?
 

Wirey

Fartist
Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights. He even said this was "self evident" meaning an intelligent person could see it without proof. Where were the atheists 150 years ago? why were there no riots in the streets and calls for impeachment because of this obvious attempt to force religion on people? Today a politician would have to say all men are evolved equal and are endowed by evolution with certain rights. Surely all the little atheist children are offended when they read the history books and read about this attempt by Lincoln to force religion on them. and what does a teacher say when a student asks"what is a creator" and the teacher is only allowed to talk about evolution? the only solution is to remove all references to Lincoln from history books. this will also make the white supremasists happy because they do not want to read but the freeing of the slaves. so everyone wins.

Was there a logical thread you were trying for?
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights. He even said this was "self evident" meaning an intelligent person could see it without proof. Where were the atheists 150 years ago? why were there no riots in the streets and calls for impeachment because of this obvious attempt to force religion on people? Today a politician would have to say all men are evolved equal and are endowed by evolution with certain rights. Surely all the little atheist children are offended when they read the history books and read about this attempt by Lincoln to force religion on them. and what does a teacher say when a student asks"what is a creator" and the teacher is only allowed to talk about evolution? the only solution is to remove all references to Lincoln from history books. this will also make the white supremasists happy because they do not want to read but the freeing of the slaves. so everyone wins.

Alright everyone, who didn't answer the bridge-troll's questions? That's the only way he could've left. Own up, come on damn it.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights. He even said this was "self evident" meaning an intelligent person could see it without proof. Where were the atheists 150 years ago? why were there no riots in the streets and calls for impeachment because of this obvious attempt to force religion on people? Today a politician would have to say all men are evolved equal and are endowed by evolution with certain rights. Surely all the little atheist children are offended when they read the history books and read about this attempt by Lincoln to force religion on them. and what does a teacher say when a student asks"what is a creator" and the teacher is only allowed to talk about evolution? the only solution is to remove all references to Lincoln from history books. this will also make the white supremasists happy because they do not want to read but the freeing of the slaves. so everyone wins.
An atheist can certainly understand and appreciate ideals. Just saying'...
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights. He even said this was "self evident" meaning an intelligent person could see it without proof.
I read somewhere that he was more of a deist/pan(en)theist.

Where were the atheists 150 years ago?
There were not very many, simple as that. It was a strange concept for most people.

why were there no riots in the streets and calls for impeachment because of this obvious attempt to force religion on people?
Because he didn't force religion on people. Name any time in US history where a president was impeached for it? Not even today. Not the previous president either. They did impeach Clinton for lying under oath about having sex, but that's about it. So I'm not sure why they would've done it 150 years ago if they don't even do it today.

Today a politician would have to say all men are evolved equal and are endowed by evolution with certain rights.
Nah. Not true. Most of the politicians are religious and many of them don't believe in evolution. Evolution hasn't really taken ground in politics yet at all. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

Surely all the little atheist children are offended when they read the history books and read about this attempt by Lincoln to force religion on them. and what does a teacher say when a student asks"what is a creator" and the teacher is only allowed to talk about evolution?
Not quite true either. Two problem: 1) a creator concept don't belong in math class or science class any more than knitting belongs in music class, different topics for different discussions and different classes, 2) a class in religion must be equal to all religions, meaning it has to include Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and so on, and not just a Christian God. Judaism should also be given the same amount of time. Or any belief by the native Americans etc.

the only solution is to remove all references to Lincoln from history books. this will also make the white supremasists happy because they do not want to read but the freeing of the slaves. so everyone wins.
Uh. Wow. Was this supposed to be in the jokes section and got misplaced here?
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights. He even said this was "self evident" meaning an intelligent person could see it without proof. Where were the atheists 150 years ago? why were there no riots in the streets and calls for impeachment because of this obvious attempt to force religion on people? Today a politician would have to say all men are evolved equal and are endowed by evolution with certain rights. Surely all the little atheist children are offended when they read the history books and read about this attempt by Lincoln to force religion on them. and what does a teacher say when a student asks"what is a creator" and the teacher is only allowed to talk about evolution? the only solution is to remove all references to Lincoln from history books. this will also make the white supremasists happy because they do not want to read but the freeing of the slaves. so everyone wins.

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Parsimony

Well-Known Member
The idea of censoring history to avoid offending people (who likely would not be offended in the first place) is just stupid. It is what it is and it cannot be changed. Besides, why stop at just Lincoln? Let's remove Stalin from the history books to avoid offending theists, remove all the popes to avoid offending non-Catholics, remove references to the Holocaust so as not to offend Jews, and so on. History class would be awfully short.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights.

Indeed! It was quite a progressive opinion.

He even said this was "self evident" meaning an intelligent person could see it without proof.

Well, sure. He is fully entititled to his opinion. Also, politicians play to audiences. A stirring speech is not the place for complete accuracy and disclosure.

Where were the atheists 150 years ago?

Same place the homosexuals were, I guess. Hiding from persecution.

why were there no riots in the streets and calls for impeachment because of this obvious attempt to force religion on people?

Hyperbole, much?
American currency had 'In God We Trust' added post WW2. This is now commonly defended against 'atheist attempts to remove God'. Phhht. Pledge of Allegiance is a similar case. Despite these revisionist history attempts, there are no riots in the street. You're building a strawman. People are allowed an opinion, surely? Or do you prefer they are shut down? Irony in the extreme.

Today a politician would have to say all men are evolved equal and are endowed by evolution with certain rights.

Would he now? Which politician is that? Show me one saying something like that in America. The truth is, all politicians claim to be theistic. This may be because theism is right, and politicians are always right, and hence the two fit together. Or it may be that there are large numbers of assclowns in the voting populace who would automatically vote against an atheist candidate. My hypothesis is that whilst atheists in many countries are free to state their lack of theism, it amounts to a major political hurdle in the US, and therefore they remain in hiding from persecution, or at the least, ill-informed voting.

Surely all the little atheist children are offended when they read the history books and read about this attempt by Lincoln to force religion on them. and what does a teacher say when a student asks"what is a creator" and the teacher is only allowed to talk about evolution?

*hands OP some more straw*
Here, dude. You're running short. By the time you've finished building the strawman, I'm worried there'll be none left over for you to clutch.

I was, funnily enough, a 'little atheist child'. I read huge amounts of history. People changing the world for the better are both rare and inspiring. I could care less if they put a nod to a Creator in that. He was quite particular in how he referenced religion, in fact. You should actually study the facts...it's really quite interesting.

the only solution is to remove all references to Lincoln from history books. this will also make the white supremasists happy because they do not want to read but the freeing of the slaves. so everyone wins.

Yeah. So I know you have your tongue in your cheek, here, but without even a vague nod to reality, this is just a steaming pile of crap, as opposed to pithy, which is perhaps what you were aiming for.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights. He even said this was "self evident
Won't we have to get rid of the Declaration of independence? Thomas Jefferson and all those people?
I'd rather not, if it doesn't offend you to say so.
Tom
 
I'd rather throw out evolution instead, but that won't ever happen even though my tax dollars are paying for it. If Creationism cannot be taught than neither should evilution be taught. As for honest Abe, no thanks he stays!
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I'd rather throw out evolution instead, but that won't ever happen even though my tax dollars are paying for it. If Creationism cannot be taught than neither should evilution be taught. As for honest Abe, no thanks he stays!

You mean you'd rather throw out science. You'd prefer your tax dollars are not spent on science education.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
Well, sure. He is fully entititled to his opinion. Also, politicians play to audiences. A stirring speech is not the place for complete accuracy and disclosure.

This is why I suspect that while on stage liberals may talk about the heart, soul and spirit sometimes, but backstage they are laughing to each other about how they conned the audience. Telling each other the heart is just a pump, and saying the soul is just made up fantasy, while laughing about the audience for buying what they said on stage.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
This is why I suspect that while on stage liberals may talk about the heart, soul and spirit sometimes, but backstage they are laughing to each other about how they conned the audience. Telling each other the heart is just a pump, and saying the soul is just made up fantasy, while laughing about the audience for buying what they said on stage.

Yeah. So that's not in the least bit related to the OP. It's also either a complete misrepresentation of what I said, or naive. Maybe both. And I'm not a liberal. At least, not compared to the majority of the world.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
Actually, it can. It's not against the law to teach creationism. It's just not allowed to teach it in an biological anthropology class or a biology class simply because creationism isn't a science.

The Dover law means you aren't allowed to teach in public schools in the form that there is a possibility of an organism and that such a possibility is chosen. It is really a law against teaching freedom is real and relevant in the universe at large.

The law does not preclude teaching people have freedom, although the implication is of course that they don't have it. And that is what is taught about people. Not racist theory anymore that people's behaviour is forced by race, but theory that people's behaviour is forced by environment, genes, and psychology etc.
 
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