Remove Abraham Lincoln from the history books

[The Enlightened One]

I'd rather throw out evolution instead, but that won't ever happen even though my tax dollars are paying for it. If Creationism cannot be taught than neither should evilution be taught. As for honest Abe, no thanks he stays!

Doesn't evolution and creationism deal with two different things?

 

[FollowerOfTheLord]

Doesn't evolution and creationism deal with two different things?

Yup and if one is taught they should both be taught.

 

[FollowerOfTheLord]

Actually, it can. It's not against the law to teach creationism. It's just not allowed to teach it in an biological anthropology class or a biology class simply because creationism isn't a science.

Why I've never heard it taught...

Science has proved the bible.

 

[FollowerOfTheLord]

You mean you'd rather throw out science. You'd prefer your tax dollars are not spent on science education.

Not if its indoctrination... Evolution is a religious theory by some quack who said we all come from a rock.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

How did we get from Lincoln to Creationism.
One hundred or so years ago, prior to 1859 No one had heard of Natural selection or evolution.There was for some years after that, a veritable war of words between scientists and religious leaders.
To day a majority of both scientists and religions accept the truth of the evolution of the species, and that it does not contradict religious belief.

No doubt a diminishing number of religious fundamentalists, will still be fighting this lost battle for many more years.
However the appeal of being a fantasist and ignorant of science is of an increasingly low order among the more educated and thoughtful population.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Not if its indoctrination... Evolution is a religious theory by some quack who said we all come from a rock.

No. It's a series of scientific theories supported by the VAST majority of scientists. If you dont want science taught, or dont want scientists to determine science, just own it. Simply say you dont want science taught. Prevarecation appears disingenuous.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

How did we get from Lincoln to Creationism.
One hundred or so years ago, prior to 1859 No one had heard of Natural selection or evolution.There was for some years after that, a veritable war of words between scientists and religious leaders.
To day a majority of both scientists and religions accept the truth of the evolution of the species, and that it does not contradict religious belief.

No doubt a diminishing number of religious fundamentalists, will still be fighting this lost battle for many more years.
However the appeal of being a fantasist and ignorant of science is of an increasingly low order among the more educated and thoughtful population.

You make a lot of sense. Who the heck would hold Lincoln to the standards of modern evidence? And who the heck would discount the quality of his message based on that? Its weird. His message was good and true. All people are equal. Lets not water it down with ridiculous semantics.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Doesn't evolution and creationism deal with two different things?

You could say evolution deals with descendancy, and creationism deals with origins.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You could say evolution deals with descendancy, and creationism deals with origins.

You could indeed...
However at what point did creation cease...
the big bang?
or the creation of the first generation of particles ?
or the first elements?
Or the first proto-life?.
Or was the act of creation limited to the logic of how these things could proceed one to another.?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You make a lot of sense. Who the heck would hold Lincoln to the standards of modern evidence? And who the heck would discount the quality of his message based on that? Its weird. His message was good and true. All people are equal. Lets not water it down with ridiculous semantics.

At the time Lincoln was speaking, those that might have considered themselves atheists or even agnostic were rare indeed.
But far from unknown amongst the elite intellectuals.
some of whom leant towards the Unitarian or deist beliefs.

Even those who despised formal religion, would likely not totally reject the existence of God.
America, and the world, were uniformly a God fearing people.
America was founded by, and for, those God fearing people.

A massive majority of Americans would have considered themselves to be some form of Christian.
They would have considered other religions as rare and curious or even heathen, with the possible exception Jews, who shared a God but not a saviour.
When they spoke about religion and God they meant Christianity.

 

[Wirey]

Yup and if one is taught they should both be taught.

Why? One is based on science, the other is a Eurocentric made up story. I don't hear the Chinese or the Japanese saying that Creationism has value, just Christians.

 

[leibowde84]

Lincoln, in his most famous speech, said that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain rights. He even said this was "self evident" meaning an intelligent person could see it without proof. Where were the atheists 150 years ago? why were there no riots in the streets and calls for impeachment because of this obvious attempt to force religion on people? Today a politician would have to say all men are evolved equal and are endowed by evolution with certain rights. Surely all the little atheist children are offended when they read the history books and read about this attempt by Lincoln to force religion on them. and what does a teacher say when a student asks"what is a creator" and the teacher is only allowed to talk about evolution? the only solution is to remove all references to Lincoln from history books. this will also make the white supremasists happy because they do not want to read but the freeing of the slaves. so everyone wins.

STRAW MAN ALERT. Every atheist I know is not bothered by such trivial things. America was a very different place when Lincoln said those things. Secularism had not "caught-on" nearly as much as it has today. Lincoln was an amazing man who saved this country from certain destruction. Removing him would be a tragedy, and I have not heard of any atheist expressing the views you have in the OP. Thus, this is merely a straw man argument.

Now, if Lincoln was giving his speech today, it would suretly be different in many ways. This should be obvious as the speech was given 150 years ago.

 

[YmirGF]

STRAW MAN ALERT. Every atheist I know is not bothered by such trivial things. America was a very different place when Lincoln said those things. Secularism had not "caught-on" nearly as much as it has today. Lincoln was an amazing man who saved this country from certain destruction. Removing him would be a tragedy, and I have not heard of any atheist expressing the views you have in the OP. Thus, this is merely a straw man argument.

Now, if Lincoln was giving his speech today, it would suretly be different in many ways. This should be obvious as the speech was given 150 years ago.

Personally, I see this as more evidence of what some call the "Special Snowflake" syndrome.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Why? One is based on science, the other is a Eurocentric made up story. I don't hear the Chinese or the Japanese saying that Creationism has value, just Christians.

Why eurocentric? Creationism as a theory, is not accepted in Europe. It is it seems to be mainly an American perversion.
Neither is Christianity fundamentally European, the basic churches were mostly eastern/ north African with the addition of Rome

 

[Wirey]

Why eurocentric? Creationism as a theory, is not accepted in Europe. It is it seems to be mainly an American perversion.
Neither is Christianity fundamentally European, the basic churches were mostly eastern/ north African with the addition of Rome

Sorry, poor choice of words. I meant white American.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Sorry, poor choice of words. I meant white American.

Aaaaaa Political correctness

 

[Ouroboros]

Why I've never heard it taught...

Science has proved the bible.

At my local college they have had classes in philosophy focused on religion where it was brought up and cultural anthropology class about different religions and creation stories part of it. And it's a public college.

I took a look at the last semesters classes, there actually were two philosophy classes about religion, and the anthropology class was there too. So three classes in total.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

At the time Lincoln was speaking, those that might have considered themselves atheists or even agnostic were rare indeed.
But far from unknown amongst the elite intellectuals.
some of whom leant towards the Unitarian or deist beliefs.

Even those who despised formal religion, would likely not totally reject the existence of God.
America, and the world, were uniformly a God fearing people.
America was founded by, and for, those God fearing people.

A massive majority of Americans would have considered themselves to be some form of Christian.
They would have considered other religions as rare and curious or even heathen, with the possible exception Jews, who shared a God but not a saviour.
When they spoke about religion and God they meant Christianity.

I'd quibble on a couple of minor details, maybe, but close enough.

 

[Ouroboros]

Not if its indoctrination... Evolution is a religious theory by some quack who said we all come from a rock.

Oh, so a quack from 3,000 years ago saying that we came from dust is somehow better?

 

[The Enlightened One]

Yup and if one is taught they should both be taught.

There is nothing to "teach" from creationism, it's speculative