Repenting after death

[1137]

After death, before judgment, will there be one last chance to repent? Say I logically conclude that there is no god or that paganism is true. I live my life in "sin" due to this. Then I die and I see the truth of god. I realize my ignorance (I'm only human, and god made me such) and am truly sorry for my apparently flawed reason. I see the truth of God / Christ and want to accept it. Will I get the chance? Or is it too late, requiring faith before death as opposed to the empirical evidence received at judgment?

 

[ChristineES]

Most of the denominations believe there is no repentance after death; that when someone dies, it is too late. Others, however, believe that a person can repent after some sort of punishment.

 

[Pegg]

After death, before judgment, will there be one last chance to repent? Say I logically conclude that there is no god or that paganism is true. I live my life in "sin" due to this. Then I die and I see the truth of god. I realize my ignorance (I'm only human, and god made me such) and am truly sorry for my apparently flawed reason. I see the truth of God / Christ and want to accept it. Will I get the chance? Or is it too late, requiring faith before death as opposed to the empirical evidence received at judgment?

If you are lucky enough to die before the judgement day, then according to the bible you likely will have that opportunity.

Acts 24:15 And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous

When the unrighteous are resurrected during the judgement day, they will have the opportunity to learn and accept God. It will be very difficult to claim ignorance at that time because God will be educating mankind himself through Christ and the heavenly kingdom. There will be no opposing views or religions teaching man, only Christ.

But of course we are also being judged right now and given opportunity now...and if we dont do something with the time we have remaining, then we may not get an opportunity at that future time.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not according to Catholic teaching. Death puts an end to the time that you could accept Christ:

1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.592 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul--a destiny which can be different for some and for others.593

Catechism of the Catholic Church - I believe in life everlasting

Scroll down to point 3: Catholic Doctrine of the Last Things

I really doubt that "well, I just didn't see a reason to believe" will be accepted as a good excuse.

 

[1137]

I really doubt that "well, I just didn't see a reason to believe" will be accepted as a good excuse.

Why not?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why not?

Because we are all capable of recognizing Truth and having faith.

 

[JayJayDee]

Because we are all capable of recognizing Truth and having faith.

Couldn't have said it better myself SF

This is why there is a command from Jesus to preach "the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth for a witness" before the foretold end of the present arrangement comes. (Matt 24:14)

Everyone gets an opportunity, (many opportunities in fact) to listen and to repent. (2 Pet 3:1-10) Unfortunately, most humans will not want to do so. (Matt 24:36-39)

@ Doors of Perception...

There is no conscious existence after death, (Eccl 9:5, 10) so there is no place (like a holding room between heaven and hell) where we can contemplate our conduct before judgment in that sense.

All the dead are asleep. (John 11:11-14)

As Pegg has said, if a person dies before the final judgment of mankind, they have 'paid sin's wages' and are acquitted of past sins. (Rom 6:7) That means that when Christ raises the dead, they will have a period of judgment whereby they will be taught Jehovah's ways and be given every opportunity to bring their thinking into line with God's.

The thousand year reign of the "Prince of Peace" will afford all the opportunity for all to be granted the everlasting life that Adam and his wife forfeited.
What they lost, Christ came to give back to us. :yes:

 

[1137]

Because we are all capable of recognizing Truth and having faith.

Isn't that a generalization / assumption?

 

[InChrist]

After death, before judgment, will there be one last chance to repent? Say I logically conclude that there is no god or that paganism is true. I live my life in "sin" due to this. Then I die and I see the truth of god. I realize my ignorance (I'm only human, and god made me such) and am truly sorry for my apparently flawed reason. I see the truth of God / Christ and want to accept it. Will I get the chance? Or is it too late, requiring faith before death as opposed to the empirical evidence received at judgment?

I believe according to the scriptures that ...
it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27)

and there will be no further chance after death because according to God;s perspective everyone has ample opportunity and evidence while in this present life on earth...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.(Romans 1:20-21)

 

[Estro Felino]

After death, before judgment, will there be one last chance to repent? Say I logically conclude that there is no god or that paganism is true. I live my life in "sin" due to this. Then I die and I see the truth of god. I realize my ignorance (I'm only human, and god made me such) and am truly sorry for my apparently flawed reason. I see the truth of God / Christ and want to accept it. Will I get the chance? Or is it too late, requiring faith before death as opposed to the empirical evidence received at judgment?

The people who are able acknowledge their sins because they are humble and pure in heart, can surely repent in the afterlife. This kind of repentance is called purgatory and it is different for each person. Because each person is different.

If your only guilt has been being an Atheist, it's practically impossible that you go to Hell. Because atheism or skepticism is not a sin. All that really matters is love.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This kind of repentance is called purgatory and it is different for each person. Because each person is different.

That's not what Purgatory is.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Isn't that a generalization / assumption?

In general, we are. If you're able to think and reason, you are able to find Truth.

 

[Pegg]

Not according to Catholic teaching. Death puts an end to the time that you could accept Christ:

1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.592 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul--a destiny which can be different for some and for others.593

Catechism of the Catholic Church - I believe in life everlasting

Scroll down to point 3: Catholic Doctrine of the Last Things

I really doubt that "well, I just didn't see a reason to believe" will be accepted as a good excuse.

where does that put people who lived and died before Christ came?

 

[InChrist]

I think the gospel message is simple enough that everyone can understand it and in a sense already knows it in their conscience...all of us are sinners and need a Savior. It's not very complicated. People can rationalize their sins or point to worse sinners who commit murder, rape, or "really bad" things in an effort to make themselves feel pretty good, but sin is sin no matter how small it may seem. I believe this life offers not only a second chance to repent, but three. four, ten, hundreds of opportunities to repent and believe God's assessment of our condition and His remedy. I see no need or indication in the scriptures for another chance after death and actually think by the time God ends a person's life they are beyond repentance and their mind is made up and set in enmity against God.

In Luke 16 the rich man who finds himself in hell, although not happy about where he is shows no repentance for what got him there, nor does he make any complaint that he is there unfairly or that God is wrong or unjust. He only requests that Abraham send Lazarus to warn his brothers so they do not suffer the same fate. Abraham (who is alive and conscious BTW and not dead in soul sleep) responds that "if they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead”

Some attempt to say that this parable is only symbolic and not literal, yet Jesus always used the parables to teach literal spiritual realities.
​

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

where does that put people who lived and died before Christ came?

Where did people who died before Christ go? | Catholic Answers

 

[JayJayDee]

Where did people who died before Christ go? | Catholic Answers

Out of interest, l really wanted to read this SF. Here's what it said....

"According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, before the Resurrection, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam and Eve, and all the righteous were in the Limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum) where they remained until "in his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him" (CCC 637)."

Now can you tell me where I might find this teaching in scripture?

Limbo? Hasn't the church actually dispensed with this place? It is not mentioned even once in the Bible....not even hinted at in Jesus' teachings....neither is purgatory. So where does it state that 'Jesus opened heaven's gate to let all these pre-Christian "souls" in' ? The "chosen ones" were not chosen until Christ came. Even these had to sleep in death until Christ returned.

The apostle Paul wrote: "But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters,[a] about those who have died,[b] so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died.[c] 15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[d] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever." (1 Thess 4:13-17 NRSVCE)

Now read the FOOTNOTES:

1. 1 Thessalonians 4:13 Gk brothers
2. 1 Thessalonians 4:13 Gk fallen asleep
3. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 Gk fallen asleep
4. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 Gk fallen asleep

The places where the Greek expression "fallen asleep" is found, has been rendered "died", indicating that the translators knew what the expression means. Death is a "sleep". It is an unconscious state and even Christ's apostles had to "sleep" until it was time for Christ to return and for them to "rise first". If they had to 'sleep in death', then so did everyone else.

Now, the next part by a lady named Peggy Frye, is also interesting

"Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him—he who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . ."I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead." (CCC 635)"


What do you see there that is remotely connected to the Bible? This is parroting the words of men. It has nothing to do with Christianity. "The king is asleep"? "God has fallen asleep"? Seriously? Men sleep, but God and his Christ never do.

And where will I find an account about Jesus 'looking for Adam as a lost sheep'?

Adam and his wife died because they committed the only crime that carried the death penalty. They were perfect beings with no defect until they chose to disobey their Creator. They had no excuse, so Christ's sacrifice does not cover them. Their own actions were responsible for the death of the entire human race as their descendants. These ones inherited death through no fault on their part. (Rom 5:12) It was for Adam's children that Christ came to offer up his life in exchange for theirs.

If there was such a place as "hell"...then Adam deserved to go there, but there was no mention of any conscious 'life after death' for Adam, his wife or anyone else. There was no mention of 'heaven or hell' in the Genesis account...there was only life or death.

I am curious as to why anyone would accept teachings that have no basis whatsoever in the Bible? This is God's only communication with mankind...it is the means by which we can get to know Him and to worship him acceptably. There is nothing in the Catholic faith that even remotely resembles Christ's teachings as outlined in God's word. That is just the plain simple truth. :sorry1: I wish you would do some serious Bible study.

 

[1137]

I had some kind people at the front door once tell me that death is the end. They pointed out verses that confirm this, which I think has been covered. They never explained why I should convert if all I get is death either way. From a Jewish perspective I could see it, a lot of religions actually. But not a christian perspective. So that one had me a bit baffled.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Out of interest, l really wanted to read this SF. Here's what it said....

"According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, before the Resurrection, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam and Eve, and all the righteous were in the Limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum) where they remained until "in his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him" (CCC 637)."

Now can you tell me where I might find this teaching in scripture?

Limbo? Hasn't the church actually dispensed with this place? It is not mentioned even once in the Bible....not even hinted at in Jesus' teachings....neither is purgatory. So where does it state that 'Jesus opened heaven's gate to let all these pre-Christian "souls" in' ? The "chosen ones" were not chosen until Christ came. Even these had to sleep in death until Christ returned.

The apostle Paul wrote: "But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters,[a] about those who have died,[b] so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died.[c] 15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[d] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever." (1 Thess 4:13-17 NRSVCE)

Now read the FOOTNOTES:

1. 1 Thessalonians 4:13 Gk brothers
2. 1 Thessalonians 4:13 Gk fallen asleep
3. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 Gk fallen asleep
4. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 Gk fallen asleep

The places where the Greek expression "fallen asleep" is found, has been rendered "died", indicating that the translators knew what the expression means. Death is a "sleep". It is an unconscious state and even Christ's apostles had to "sleep" until it was time for Christ to return and for them to "rise first". If they had to 'sleep in death', then so did everyone else.

Now, the next part by a lady named Peggy Frye, is also interesting

"Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him—he who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . ."I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead." (CCC 635)"


What do you see there that is remotely connected to the Bible? This is parroting the words of men. It has nothing to do with Christianity. "The king is asleep"? "God has fallen asleep"? Seriously? Men sleep, but God and his Christ never do.

And where will I find an account about Jesus 'looking for Adam as a lost sheep'?

Adam and his wife died because they committed the only crime that carried the death penalty. They were perfect beings with no defect until they chose to disobey their Creator. They had no excuse, so Christ's sacrifice does not cover them. Their own actions were responsible for the death of the entire human race as their descendants. These ones inherited death through no fault on their part. (Rom 5:12) It was for Adam's children that Christ came to offer up his life in exchange for theirs.

If there was such a place as "hell"...then Adam deserved to go there, but there was no mention of any conscious 'life after death' for Adam, his wife or anyone else. There was no mention of 'heaven or hell' in the Genesis account...there was only life or death.

I am curious as to why anyone would accept teachings that have no basis whatsoever in the Bible? This is God's only communication with mankind...it is the means by which we can get to know Him and to worship him acceptably. There is nothing in the Catholic faith that even remotely resembles Christ's teachings as outlined in God's word. That is just the plain simple truth. :sorry1: I wish you would do some serious Bible study.

Go rant to someone else. I'm very close to putting you on ignore since you're not interested in having real discussions, but only in belittling and attacking beliefs that differ from yours. You go ahead and believe whatever the Watchtower tells you and I'll continue not to care, since there's no point in talking to you anyway.

 

[1137]

Go rant to someone else. I'm very close to putting you on ignore since you're not interested in having real discussions, but only in belittling and attacking beliefs that differ from yours. You go ahead and believe whatever the Watchtower tells you and I'll continue not to care, since there's no point in talking to you anyway.

She's not ranting at all. That post was actually really informative.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

He's not ranting at all. That post was actually really informative.

And you're welcome to think that. From all my dealings with her on the forum, I'm inclined to disagree.