Report Child Abuse? You're a Priest? Then No need to Bother

[Skwim]

"Louisiana Supreme Court: Priests Don’t Have To Report Child Abuse

And the children suffer: Louisiana Supreme Court rules priests don’t have to report child abuse.

In a disappointing decision that puts children at risk, the Louisiana Supreme Court rules that Catholic priests are not “mandatory reporters” of child abuse when administering sacramental confession.

The Oct. 28 ruling finds that laws which categorize priests as “mandatory reporters” of suspected child abuse do not apply to priests who discover such information while hearing confessions.

The new ruling protects the priest and the church from being held accountable for failing to protect children and report child abuse. In essence, the ruling places church dogma above the law.

Bottom line: If a priest hears about a child being abused, in confession or not, that priest has a moral obligation to do everything in their power to protect that child, including reporting the abuse to the appropriate law enforcement authorities. To do otherwise is to fail as a human being.

Yet the fact that the Catholic church would fight for and win the right to keep child abuse hidden should come as a surprise to no one. After all, the Catholic church has a long and well documented history of protecting child abusers at the expense of innocent children."
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-GIANT FACEPALM-


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[Thanda]

I'm not sure what your problem is. I assume going to a confessional is part of the repentance process. And if they are repenting then they will stop the abuse.

I recognize that child abuse is a most serious matter. I however caution against the belief that jail and justice is the magic balm that will cure societies of their ills. America already has one of the highest incarceration rates in thr world and yet it continues to have one of the highest crime rates in the developed world.

Some things are just not so simple

 

[George-ananda]

Confessional privacy includes everything; why single out child abuse?

Is it better that a criminal goes for spiritual counseling in a confession as opposed to no such counseling (he would likely opt for no spiritual counselling if there were no confessional privacy in a criminal matter). And perhaps the priest can guide the criminal to do the right things to make things better (as opposed to the criminal not receiving spiritual advice).

 

[columbus]

I assume going to a confessional is part of the repentance process. And if they are repenting then they will stop the abuse.

I am not at all willing to put any faith in that assumption.
A priest with reason to believe that child abuse is happening and has evidence should be held to the same standards everyone else is.
Report it or become an accessory to the crime.
Tom

 

[Thanda]

I am not at all willing to put any faith in that assumption.
A priest with reason to believe that child abuse is happening and has evidence should be held to the same standards everyone else is.
Report it or become an accessory to the crime.
Tom

From my understanding a priest is held to the same standards as everyone else, the only exception is an official confessional. Just like a lawyer is held to the same standards as everyone else, except when he is officially acting as a lawyer (in which case there are confidentiality protections); as well as a doctor...

If a priest hears about or sees child abuse he needs to report it. But only if he didn't acquire that knowledge through a confessional

 

[columbus]

Confessional privacy includes everything; why single out child abuse?

Personally, I am not singling out child abuse. If someone confesses to parking illegally the same principle applies.
It's just that nobody cares if the priest is an accessory to that crime.

We care a lot about murder, real rape, child abuse and other similar crimes. The priest is free to give or withhold absolution on the part of the church, but not on the part of society.
Tom

 

[columbus]

From my understanding a priest is held to the same standards as everyone else, the only exception is an official confessional.

That is not OK with me. The confessional is not different from anywhere else.
And priests are not special in this particular way. Laws requiring the reporting of certain crimes apply to them like everyone else.
Tom

 

[George-ananda]

Personally, I am not singling out child abuse. If someone confesses to parking illegally the same principle applies.
It's just that nobody cares if the priest is an accessory to that crime.

We care a lot about murder, real rape, child abuse and other similar crimes. The priest is free to give or withhold absolution on the part of the church, but not on the part of society.
Tom

Did you not read the rest of my post? I gave my reasons for supporting the court decision and the Church's position.

 

[Thanda]

Personally, I am not singling out child abuse. If someone confesses to parking illegally the same principle applies.
It's just that nobody cares if the priest is an accessory to that crime.

We care a lot about murder, real rape, child abuse and other similar crimes. The priest is free to give or withhold absolution on the part of the church, but not on the part of society.
Tom

Do you believe courts and jails are best placed to deal with those "real crimes"

 

[Thanda]

That is not OK with me. The confessional is not different from anywhere else.
And priests are not special in this particular way. Laws requiring the reporting of certain crimes apply to them like everyone else.
Tom

I agree they do apply to them like everyone else - except when receiving an official confessional. Just like the law applies to a lawyer or doctor as it does to anyone else, except when acting in their official capacities.

I note that you have failed to address the fact that the confidentiality given to priests is not unique in that both lawyers and doctors posses it under certain circumstances

 

[columbus]

Just like a lawyer is held to the same standards as everyone else, except when he is officially acting as a lawyer (in which case there are confidentiality protections);

Lawyers are held to the same standards unless they are legally representing someone in court. That's the only exception and is there for the purpose of providing fair representation in court. It is not a blanket exemption from the law, like priests are expecting.
Tom

 

[Thanda]

Lawyers are held to the same standards unless they are legally representing someone in court. That's the only exception and is there for the purpose of providing fair representation in court. It is not a blanket exemption from the law, like priests are expecting.
Tom

Priests do not have a blanket exemption. The judgement was clear that the rule only applied in the case of a confessional.

 

[columbus]

Do you believe courts and jails are best placed to deal with those "real crimes"

They're the best we have.
There are many things about them I don't like. But giving permission to priests to decide whether or not a violent criminal should be prosecuted is asinine.

If a priest wants to take the responsibility then he should man up and go to prison himself if he gets caught.
Tom

 

[Skwim]

Talk about learning something new every day.

"If you talk about a crime in Catholic confession, can the priest report it to the police?

No, the very most a priest may do is require the penitent to surrender to authorities and may withhold absolution if the penitent refuses to do so.

The Sacramental Seal is inviolable. Quoting Canon 983.1 of the Code of Canon Law, http://www.vatican.va/archive/EN... the Catechism states,
"...It is a crime for a confessor in any way to betray a penitent by word or in any other manner or for any reason". A priest, therefore, cannot break the seal to save his own life, to protect his good name, to refute a false accusation, to save the life of another, to aid the course of justice, or to avert a public calamity. He cannot be compelled by law to disclose a person's confession or be bound by any oath he takes, e.g. as a witness in a court trial. A priest cannot reveal the contents of a confession either directly, by repeating the substance of what has been said, or indirectly, by some sign, suggestion, or action."
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"The standard of secrecy protecting a confession outweighs any form of professional confidentiality or secrecy. When a person unburdens his soul and confesses his sins to a priest in the Sacrament of Penance, a very sacred trust is formed. The priest must maintain absolute secrecy about anything that a person confesses. For this reason, confessionals were developed with screens to protect the anonymity of the penitent. This secrecy is called "the sacramental seal," "the seal of the confessional," or "the seal of confession."

The sacramental seal is inviolable. Quoting Canon 983.1 of the Code of Canon Law, the Catechism states, "...It is a crime for a confessor in any way to betray a penitent by word or in any other manner or for any reason" (No. 2490). A priest, therefore, cannot break the seal to save his own life, to protect his good name, to refute a false accusation, to save the life of another, to aid the course of justice (like reporting a crime), or to avert a public calamity. He cannot be compelled by law to disclose a person's confession or be bound by any oath he takes, e.g. as a witness in a court trial. A priest cannot reveal the contents of a confession either directly, by repeating the substance of what has been said, or indirectly, by some sign, suggestion, or action. A Decree from the Holy Office (Nov. 18, 1682) mandated that confessors are forbidden, even where there would be no revelation direct or indirect, to make any use of the knowledge obtained in the confession that would "displease" the penitent or reveal his identity.

What happens if a priest violates the seal of confession? The Catechism (No. 1467) cites the Code of Canon Law (No. 1388.1) in addressing this issue, which states, "A confessor who directly violates the seal of confession incurs an automatic excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; if he does so only indirectly, he is to be punished in accord with the seriousness of the offense." From the severity of the punishment, we can clearly see how sacred the sacramental seal of confession is in the eyes of the Church.
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[Thanda]

They're the best we have.
There are many things about them I don't like. But giving permission to priests to decide whether or not a violent criminal should be prosecuted is asinine.

If a priest wants to take the responsibility then he should man up and go to prison himself if he gets caught.
Tom

They do not decide whether or not they are prosecuted. They are simply not allowed to divulge what the confessor tells them to anyone, including the police. They could be prosecuted for doing so.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm not sure what your problem is. I assume going to a confessional is part of the repentance process. And if they are repenting then they will stop the abuse.

I recognize that child abuse is a most serious matter. I however caution against the belief that jail and justice is the magic balm that will cure societies of their ills. America already has one of the highest incarceration rates in thr world and yet it continues to have one of the highest crime rates in the developed world.

Some things are just not so simple

You can be both for prison reform and for not letting child abusers be protected by churches when even therapists can't call this part of legal confidentiality.

 

[columbus]

They do not decide whether or not they are prosecuted. They are simply not allowed to divulge what the confessor tells them to anyone, including the police. They could be prosecuted for doing so.

Why are they given this power and not me?
Prosecuted by who?
Back in the olden days, Catholic priests sold indulgences. That is what you are talking about here.
It didn't turn out well for anybody.
Tom

 

[Aštra’el]

Turning priests into snitches is not going to help the church grow and maintain respect and influence, nor is it going to encourage penitent individuals to come seeking counciling, repentance, and deliverance.

In the grand scheme of things, far many more people are helped when priests can be trusted to ensure privacy and discretion to the troubled or contrite who come before them.

 

[columbus]

In the grand scheme of things, far many more people are helped when priests can be trusted to ensure privacy and discretion to the troubled or contrite who come before them.

You don't seem to know much about abused children or the people who enable the abusers.
Tom

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Turning priests into snitches is not going to help the church grow and maintain respect and influence, nor is it going to encourage penitent individuals to come seeking counciling, repentance, and deliverance.

In the grand scheme of things, far many more people are helped when priests can be trusted to ensure privacy and discretion to the troubled or contrite who come before them.

Is that why the church is well known for protecting child abusers and circulating them among active roles in different churches, being allowed to continue in power roles over children and never being given counseling from actual professionals?