Report Child Abuse? You're a Priest? Then No need to Bother

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Turning priests into snitches is not going to help the church grow and maintain respect and influence, nor is it going to encourage penitent individuals to come seeking counciling, repentance, and deliverance.

In the grand scheme of things, far many more people are helped when priests can be trusted to ensure privacy and discretion to the troubled or contrite who come before them.

If the Church was truly concerned about maintaining its respect & influence then it wouldn't harbour (and, indeed, enable) the child molesters, money launderers and other criminals hiding in the ranks of its clergy. That is has knowledge of these crimes and is concealing both knowledge and perpetrators of these crimes makes the Church an accessory to each and every act. The Catholic Church is just a criminal organisation now and it should be treated as such by international law enforcement. As long as it continues to do this it has no moral authority at all.

And the good things the Church does do not cancel out the bad. This is not a trade-off. Crimes are still crimes.

"One good deed is not enough to redeem a man of a lifetime of wickedness."

 

[columbus]

Did you not read the rest of my post? I gave my reasons for supporting the court decision and the Church's position.

I read it, but I had 7 alerts at the time.
I don't believe for one second that spiritual counseling (whatever that means) is any substitute for the rule of law.
And I am fine with a priest doing it if he wants to, but I also think he should be held to the rest of the law. Which includes prison for the enablers of child abuse.
Tom

 

[George-ananda]

I read it, but I had 7 alerts at the time.
I don't believe for one second that spiritual counseling (whatever that means) is any substitute for the rule of law.
And I am fine with a priest doing it if he wants to, but I also think he should be held to the rest of the law. Which includes prison for the enablers of child abuse.
Tom

I don't think you are addressing the gist of my argument with those comments. Spiritual counselling by a priest to get a wayward person to choose to do the right thing is better than receiving no such advise. If there was no confidentiality law the criminally wayward would not get this counselling in the first place (they'd be afraid of getting reported if a priest was forced to report)! Get my point?

 

[Aštra’el]

And the good things the Church does do not cancel out the bad. This is not a trade-off.

"One good deed is not enough to redeem a man of a lifetime of wickedness."

"Good" and "bad" is a point of view.

Crimes are still crimes.

"Crimes" vary from place to place and reflect the thoughts and desires of those in power.

 

[columbus]

I don't think you are addressing the gist of my argument with those comments.

The gist of your argument is that maybe if priests could legally enable child abusers to continue by hiding them the world would be a better place.
I disagree.
That is as charitable as I can be about it.

The priests can still do whatever they think right. But they need to man up and take their prison stint if they feel hiding the abuser is the right thing to do and get caught.
Tom

 

[George-ananda]

The gist of your argument is that maybe if priests could legally enable child abusers to continue by hiding them the world would be a better place.
I disagree.
That is as charitable as I can be about it.

The priests can still do whatever they think right. But they need to man up and take their prison stint if they feel hiding the abuser is the right thing to do and get caught.
Tom

I guess you didn't want to hear the gist of my argument. Oh, well.

 

[columbus]

I guess you didn't want to hear the gist of my argument. Oh, well.

Apparently you didn't hear the gist of mine.
Priests are free to do whatever they want in the confessional.
And also the laws protecting children apply to them. If they think confessional privilege is worth going to jail for fine.
I don't. I think it a primitive old custom that has been proven to result in a lot of horrible behavior.
Tom

 

[SomeRandom]

That's just sick!
Now they're allowed to protect child abusers officially? Ew.
I hate to go all Helen Lovejoy but in this instance the "won't somebody please think of the children" thing is surprisingly apt.

 

[Skwim]

I'm not sure what your problem is. I assume going to a confessional is part of the repentance process. And if they are repenting then they will stop the abuse.

Your naivete is bewildering, and it's obvious you know next to nothing about about sexual predators.

I recognize that child abuse is a most serious matter. I however caution against the belief that jail and justice is the magic balm that will cure societies of their ills. America already has one of the highest incarceration rates in thr world and yet it continues to have one of the highest crime rates in the developed world.
Some things are just not so simple

Your irrelevancy is duly noted.


.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As has been said: Hell is for children.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Confessional privacy includes everything; why single out child abuse?

Mandatory reporting laws cover a range of professions; why single out priests?

Is it better that a criminal goes for spiritual counseling in a confession as opposed to no such counseling (he would likely opt for no spiritual counselling if there were no confessional privacy in a criminal matter). And perhaps the priest can guide the criminal to do the right things to make things better (as opposed to the criminal not receiving spiritual advice).

In this particular case:

- the abuse was uncovered during the confession of the victim, not the perpetrator.

- the priest told the victim not to report the abuse.

Do you think the priest's conduct in this case should be protected?

 

[Thanda]

Your naivete is bewildering, and it's obvious you know next to nothing about about sexual predators.
.

Ah yes of course, I forgot sexual predators belong to this special group of people who can never change - thank you for reminding me.

 

[Thanda]

Why are they given this power and not me?

You are also given this power if you become a priest (of any church - even your own) and you receive the information during the confessional.

Prosecuted by who?

By the state

Back in the olden days, Catholic priests sold indulgences. That is what you are talking about here.
It didn't turn out well for anybody.
Tom

Nope, no one is talking about indulgences - which was entirely church related. We have a separate church and state. The State is merely saying that a priest is under no obligation to report any crime he comes to know of through a confession - this includes stealing, murder, rape, traffic violations and abuse.

No right minded person who has committed a crime (a very serious one for that matter) would tell someone of it. The only reason they tell a priest is because they think it will be confidential and that they will show them the way to come right. As soon as that protection is removed you can be sure they will stop telling their priests - meaning there will be no increase in children protected as a result. Instead such a person who was considering getting help will decide not to and will simply continue with their crimes - meaning there will be an increase in children harmed.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think you are addressing the gist of my argument with those comments. Spiritual counselling by a priest to get a wayward person to choose to do the right thing is better than receiving no such advise. If there was no confidentiality law the criminally wayward would not get this counselling in the first place (they'd be afraid of getting reported if a priest was forced to report)! Get my point?

Is "spiritual counselling" combined with silence more effective at actually protecting children than a policy that implies that child abuse will not be tolerated?

And as I touched on earlier, in this case, the abuse was uncovered during the victim's confession, not the assailant's. This is often how this plays out. In these cases, confidentiality of confession would actually prevent "spiritual counselling" of the assailant (... for all the good it would do).

 

[George-ananda]

Mandatory reporting laws cover a range of professions; why single out priests?

For the reasons I specified. Spiritual counselling is better than no spiritual counselling.

In this particular case:

- the abuse was uncovered during the confession of the victim, not the perpetrator.

- the priest told the victim not to report the abuse.

Do you think the priest's conduct in this case should be protected?

I was not aware that there was a specific case being discussed. The 'victim' has his own decision as to whether to go to the police. Priests can give advice but they are only human. To judge this particular case, I would first like to hear 'why' the priest counseled the victim not to report it. But in the end, it is the victim's call, and they can ask whoever they want for advice.

But yes, all things considered, I think it is best that the law protects confessional privacy even in this case. It can also prevent a perpetrators from doing even more heinous things.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Spiritual counselling is better than no spiritual counselling.

Professional counseling is better than nonprofessional counseling, yet they are legally required to report suspected child abuse. And why is child abuse being given a free pass when domestic abuse or murder still must go reported?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

For the reasons I specified. Spiritual counselling is better than no spiritual counselling.

Psychiatric counselling is better than no psychiatric counselling and medical care is better than no medical care. Psychiatrists and physicians are still obliged to report child abuse. Again: why single out priests?

I was not aware that there was a specific case being discussed.

It was laid out at length in the OP.

The 'victim' has his own decision as to whether to go to the police.

The victim was a 14-year-old girl who was being sexually assaulted by a 60-something member of the congregation.

The victims are often living with shame, don't know what options are available to them, and are too young to be free to take some courses of action.

BTW: why the scare quotes on "victim"?

Priests can give advice but they are only human. To judge this particular case, I would first like to hear 'why' the priest counseled the victim not to report it.

Does it matter? What reasons do you think would justify telling a 14-year-old girl, still accessible to her assailant, to "sweep it under the rug" and not tell anyone about what was going on?

But in the end, it is the victim's call, and they can ask whoever they want for advice.

Meaning what? It seems she asked her parish priest - presumably an authority figure that she trusted. That trust was breached by the priest's advice and silence.

But yes, all things considered, I think it is best that the law protects confessional privacy even in this case. It can also prevent a perpetrators from doing even more heinous things.

I don't believe that for a second.

 

[Aštra’el]

The State is merely saying that a priest is under no obligation to report any crime he comes to know of through a confession - this includes stealing, murder, rape, traffic violations and abuse.

No right minded person who has committed a crime (a very serious one for that matter) would tell someone of it. The only reason they tell a priest is because they think it will be confidential and that they will show them the way to come right. As soon as that protection is removed you can be sure they will stop telling their priests - meaning there will be no increase in children protected as a result. Instead such a person who was considering getting help will decide not to and will simply continue with their crimes - meaning there will be an increase in children harmed.

I agree, and wonder why the point established above is not clear to those arguing against it. It's like some people are just refusing to accept the obvious mathematics here. It's possible their perspectives are distorted by emotion.

 

[George-ananda]

Professional counseling is better than nonprofessional counseling, yet they are legally required to report suspected child abuse. And why is child abuse being given a free pass when domestic abuse or murder still must go reported?

You missed my main point here. I am saying perpetrators would not go for any confessional counseling if they knew they could be reported. A priest may help the individual to do the right things to straighten his life out.

 

[George-ananda]

I agree, and wonder why the point established above is not clear to those arguing against it. It's like some people are just refusing to accept the obvious mathematics here. It's possible their perspectives are distorted by emotion.

I think for many their dislikes will not let them even hear the point I have had to make three of four times already.

I am saying perpetrators would not go for any confessional counseling if they knew they could be reported. A priest may help the individual to do the right things to straighten his life out. People need someone they can talk to.