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Report reveals the truth behind the international dupe on Palestinian poverty.

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
seems to label the Palestinians as the "indigenous peoples", to the exclusion of the Jewish people.
Which I do.
The Jewish people who have had ancestors there in the early 19th century, excepted I suppose. Like I said, the egg isn't getting unscrambled. But Jewish people whose ancestors have lived elsewhere for 2000 years are immigrant/invaders, IMHO. The people who have been living there for centuries are now the indigenes.

Which doesn't include a lot of the people who now consider themselves Palestinian. Like I say over and over, the egg can't get unscrambled.
Tom
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I trust the Palestinians to tone down their insurrection if they are ever given a true country to call their own, a good sizable chunk of what is now Israel.
That is a huge part of the problem. You are the only person who trusts that this will happen. And even if 95% did, the other 5% could blow up the whole thing for everyone (including the Palestinians).
Take a closer look at Hamas and their Muslim supporters.
Tom
 

Shusha

Member
That is a huge part of the problem. You are the only person who trusts that this will happen. And even if 95% did, the other 5% could blow up the whole thing for everyone (including the Palestinians).
Take a closer look at Hamas and their Muslim supporters.
Tom

Agreed. Gaza was a test of what would happen with a withdrawal. The conflict is not really about getting a state.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
That is a huge part of the problem. You are the only person who trusts that this will happen. And even if 95% did, the other 5% could blow up the whole thing for everyone (including the Palestinians).
Take a closer look at Hamas and their Muslim supporters.
Tom

The gift of Palestinian sovereignty is not a gift that would be taken lightly, even by present hardliners like Hamas. Israel has to think to their future, continual uncertainty as to when the next Arab attack will come, or major concessions for peace that will last, the present situation is untenable, not only for the Palestinians but for the future well being of the Israeli state.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Agreed. Gaza was a test of what would happen with a withdrawal. The conflict is not really about getting a state.

Wrong, Gaza was a test of what will happen if you totally isolate a people form the rest of the world and cut of all there means to get even basic necessities like concrete and building supplies, not letting them travel, etc, In short an Israeli prison camp for Palestinians and you wonder why Hamas gained so much support. The Palestinian Authority has much better conditions and not surprisingly the much more moderate PLO faction leads.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Wrong, Gaza was a test of what will happen if you totally isolate a people form the rest of the world and cut of all there means to get even basic necessities like concrete and building supplies, not letting them travel, etc,.
Wrong on various counts. Hamas' fight with Israel is based on religious grounds that is found in the Hadith. Secondly, concrete and building supplies have been and still are being allowed in, but unfortunately much has gone, both then and now, to build "terror tunnels".
 
Lyndon

More basic information:

Hamas intentions of destruction of the State of Israel can be found in its own publications and videos. To see more on this subject go to: http://www.pmw.org.il/tv-hamas.htm

HAMAS CHARTER:

. . .
The Slogan of the Islamic Resistance Movement:

Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Quran its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.

Objectives
Incentives and Objectives:

The Islamic Resistance Movement found itself at a time when Islam has disappeared from life. Thus rules shook, concepts were upset, values changed and evil people took control, oppression and darkness prevailed, cowards became like tigers: homelands were usurped, people were scattered and were caused to wander all over the world, the state of justice disappeared and the state of falsehood replaced it. Nothing remained in its right place. Thus, when Islam is absent from the arena, everything changes. From this state of affairs the incentives are drawn.

As to the objectives: discarding the evil, crushing it and defeating it and vanquishing it so that so that truth may prevail, homelands revert [to their owners], calls for prayer be heard from their mosques, announcing the reinstitution of the Muslim state. Thus, people and things will revert to their true place and Allah is our helper.

"...And if Allah had not repelled some men by others the earth would have been corrupted. But Allah is the Lord of kindness to [His] creatures."(Sura 2 - The Cow - verse 251).

As the Islamic Resistance Movement paves its way, it will back the oppressed and support the wronged with all its might, a defense to all the oppressed. It will spare no effort to implement the truth and abolish evil, in word and deed, in this place and any other location it can reach out and exert influence therein.

Strategies and Methods
Strategies of the Islamic Resistance Movement: Palestine Is Islamic Waqf:

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Muslim generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who can presume to speak for all Islamic generations to the Day of Resurrection?

This is the status [of the land] in Islamic Sharia (law), and the same goes for all lands conquered by Muslims by force, during the times of (Islamic) conquests, and made thereby Waqf lands upon their conquest, for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection.

It happened like this: When the leaders of the Islamic armies conquered Syria and Iraq, they sent to the Caliph of the Muslims, Umar bin-el-Khatab, asking for his advice concerning the conquered land - whether they should divide it among the soldiers, or leave it for its owners, or what? After consultations and discussions between the Caliph of the Muslims, Omar bin-el-Khatab and companions of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, it was decided that the land should be left with its owners who could benefit by its fruit, but the control of the land and the land itself ought to be endowed as a Waqf [in perpetuity] for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection. The ownership of the land by its owners is only one of usufruct, and this Waqf will endure as long as Heaven and earth last. Any demarche in violation of this law of Islam, with regard to Palestine , is baseless and reflects on its perpetrators.

" Verily, this is a certain truth. Wherefore praise the name of thy Lord, the great Allah." (The Inevitable - verse 95).

Homeland and Nationalism from the Point of View of the Islamic Resistance Movement in Palestine:

Hamas regards Nationalism (Wataniyya) as part and parcel of the religious faith. Nothing is loftier or deeper in Nationalism than waging Jihad against the enemy and confronting him when he sets foot on the land of the Muslims. And this becomes an individual duty binding on every Muslim man and woman; a woman may fight the enemy even without her husband's authorization, and a slave without his masters' permission.

This [principle] does not exist under any other regime, and it is a truth not to be questioned. While other nationalisms consist of material, human and territorial considerations, the nationality of Hamas also carries, in addition to all those, the all important divine factors which lend to it its spirit and life; so much so that it connects with the origin of the spirit and the source of life and raises in the skies of the Homeland the Banner of the Lord, thus inexorably connecting earth with Heaven.

When Moses came and threw his baton, sorcery and sorcerers became futile.

"Now is the right direction manifestly distinguished from deceit: And he who rejects false deities and believes in Allah has grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower." (Sura II - The Cow - verse 256)

Peaceful Solutions, Initiatives and International Conferences:

[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: "Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware."

From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that conditions, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers?

"But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no protector or helper from Allah." (Sura 2 - The Cow - verse 120).

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honorable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His worshippers. It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation." (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammed, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best).
 
lyndon hammas charter cont

The Three Circles:

The question of the liberation of Palestine is bound to three circles: the Palestinian, the Arab and the Islamic. Each one of these circles has a role to play in the struggle against Zionism and it has duties to fulfill. It would be an enormous mistake and an abysmal act of ignorance to disregard anyone of these circles. For Palestine is an Islamic land where the First Qibla and the third holiest site are located. That is also the place whence the Prophet, be Allah's prayer and peace upon him, ascended to Heavens.

"Praise be unto him who transported his servant by night, from the sacred temple of Mecca to the farther temple of Jerusalem, the circuit of which we have blessed, that we might show him some of our tokens; for Allah is he who heareth, and seeth."(Sura XVII - The Night-Journey - verse 1).

In consequence of this state of affairs, the liberation of that land is an individual duty binding on all Muslims everywhere. This is the base on which all Muslims have to regard the problem; this has to be understood by all Muslims. When the problem is dealt with on this basis, where the full potential of the three circles is mobilized, then the current circumstances will change and the day of liberation will come closer.

"Verily ye are stronger than they, by reason of the terror cast into their breasts from Allah. That is because they are a folk who understand not." (Sura LIX - Al-Hashr, the Exile - verse 13 ).

The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty:

When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurpation of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad. This would require the propagation of Islamic consciousness among the masses on all local, Arab and Islamic levels. We must spread the spirit of Jihad among the [Islamic] Umma, clash with the enemies and join the ranks of the Jihad fighters.

It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses). It is important that basic changes be made in the school curriculum, to cleanse it of the traces of ideological invasion that affected it as a result of the orientalists and missionaries who infiltrated the region following the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah el-Din (Saladin). The Crusaders realised that it was impossible to defeat the Muslims without first having ideological invasion pave the way by upsetting their thoughts, disfiguring their heritage and violating their ideals. Only then could they invade with soldiers. This, in its turn, paved the way for the imperialistic invasion that made Allenby declare on entering Jerusalem : "Only now have the Crusades ended." General Guru stood at Salah el-Din's grave and said: "We have returned, O Salah el-Din." Imperialism has helped towards the strengthening of ideological invasion, deepening, and still does, its roots. All this has paved the way towards the loss of Palestine .

It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Muslim generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis. Palestine contains Islamic holy sites. In it there is al- Aqsa Mosque which is bound to the great Mosque in Mecca in an inseparable bond as long as heaven and earth speak of Isra` (Mohammed's midnight journey to the seven heavens) and Mi'raj (Mohammed's ascension to the seven heavens from Jerusalem).

"The bond of one day for the sake of Allah is better than the world and whatever there is on it. The place of one's whip in Paradise is far better than the world and whatever there is on it. A worshipper's going and coming in the service of Allah is better than the world and whatever there is on it." (As related by al-Bukhari, Muslim, al-Tarmdhi and Ibn Maja).
. . .
The Powers which Support the Enemy:

For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.

As regards local and world wars, it has come to pass and no one objects, they were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.

"...As often as they light a fire for war, Allah extinguishes it. Their efforts is for corruption in the land and Allah loves not corrupters." (Sura V - Al-Ma'ida - the Tablespread - verse 64)

The forces of Imperialism in both the Capitalist West and the Communist East support the enemy with all their might, in material and human terms, taking turns between themselves. When Islam appears, all the forces of Unbelief unite to confront it, because the Community of Unbelief is one.

"O true believers, contract not an intimate friendship with any besides yourselves: they will not fail to corrupt you. They wish for that which may cause you to perish: their hatred hath already appeared from out of their mouths; but what their breasts conceal is yet more inveterate. We have already shown you signs of their ill will towards you, if ye understand." (Sura III - The Family of Imran - verse 118).

It is not in vain that the verse ends with Allah's saying: 'If ye understand."
. . .

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/Conflict/statute-treaties/Hamas_charter.htm
 
Lyndon - PLO CHARTER

PLO CHARTER

Article 1: Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

Article 2: Palestine , with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

Article 3: The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny after achieving the liberation of their country in accordance with their wishes and entirely of their own accord and will.

Article 4: The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from parents to children. The Zionist occupation and the dispersal of the Palestinian Arab people, through the disasters which befell them, do not make them lose their Palestinian identity and their membership in the Palestinian community, nor do they negate them.

Article 5: The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father – whether inside Palestine or outside it - is also a Palestinian.

. . .
Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine . Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

Article 10: Commando action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war. This requires its escalation, comprehensiveness, and the mobilization of all the Palestinian popular and educational efforts and their organization and involvement in the armed Palestinian revolution. It also requires the achieving of unity for the national (watani) struggle among the different groupings of the Palestinian people, and between the Palestinian people and the Arab masses, so as to secure the continuation of the revolution, its escalation, and victory.

. . .
Article 13: Arab unity and the liberation of Palestine are two complementary objectives, the attainment of either of which facilitates the attainment of the other. Thus, Arab unity leads to the liberation of Palestine , the liberation of Palestine leads to Arab unity; and work toward the realization of one objective proceeds side by side with work toward the realization of the other.

Article 14: The destiny of the Arab nation, and indeed Arab existence itself, depend upon the destiny of the Palestine cause. From this interdependence springs the Arab nation's pursuit of, and striving for, the liberation of Palestine . The people of Palestine play the role of the vanguard in the realization of this sacred (qawmi) goal.

Article 15: The liberation of Palestine , from an Arab viewpoint, is a national (qawmi) duty and it attempts to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the elimination of Zionism in Palestine . Absolute responsibility for this falls upon the Arab nation – peoples and governments – with the Arab people of Palestine in the vanguard. Accordingly, the Arab nation must mobilize all its military, human, moral, and spiritual capabilities to participate Actively with the Palestinian people in the liberation of Palestine . It must, particularly in the phase of the armed Palestinian revolution, offer and furnish the Palestinian people with all possible help, and material and human support, and make available to them the means and opportunities that will enable them to continue to carry out their leading role in the armed revolution, until they liberate their homeland.

. . .
Article 19: The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and to their natural right in their homeland, and inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination.

Article 20: The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine , and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void. Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the true conception of what constitutes statehood. Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality. Nor do Jews constitute a single nation with an identity of its own; they are citizens of the states to which they belong.

Article 21: The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by the armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aiming at the liquidation of the Palestinian problem, or its internationalization.

Article 22: Zionism is a political movement organically associated with international imperialism and antagonistic to all action for liberation and to progressive movements in the world. It is racist and fanatic in its nature, aggressive, expansionist, and colonial in its aims, and fascist in its methods. Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism placed strategically in the midst of the Arab homeland to combat the hopes of the Arab nation for liberation, unity, and progress. Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world. Since the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence and will contribute to the establishment of peace in the Middle East, the Palestinian people look for the support of all the progressive and peaceful forces and urge them all, irrespective of their affiliations and beliefs, to offer the Palestinian people all aid and support in their just struggle for the liberation of their homeland.

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/Conflict/statute-treaties/PLO_charter.htm
 
Lyndon - Now compare those two hate filled documents to the Israel Declaration of Establishment
Israel - Declaration of Establishment
. . .
THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
. . .
WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.
. . .
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPo...tion of Establishment of State of Israel.aspx
 

Shusha

Member
Wrong, Gaza was a test of what will happen if you totally isolate a people form the rest of the world and cut of all there means to get even basic necessities like concrete and building supplies, not letting them travel, etc, In short an Israeli prison camp for Palestinians and you wonder why Hamas gained so much support. The Palestinian Authority has much better conditions and not surprisingly the much more moderate PLO faction leads.

No, its what happens when a belligerent, self-governing entity terrorizes the civilian population of a nation with rockets and suicide bombers. Its the consequence of murdering Israeli citizens. And the consequences will stop the second the murder stops. And people need to stop giving the Palestinians in Gaza and Hamas a free pass in discussions by ignoring this very basic fact in their rush to demonize Israel.

The outcome is proof that this conflict is not truly about the Gazan people getting a country and having self-determination and prosperity. If it were, the obvious solution is to stop being belligerent towards your neighbors.
 
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