• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Representative Ilhan Omar has been removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Here's the acronym for the 'hole' I'm referring to.

DSA

Even someone like you, I'm sure, can possibly figure out what that particular acronym stands for.

If not, I'll be happy to spell it out for you. Let me know.

So you consider democratic socialists like Bernie Sanders, to be Marxists? Odd that they reject Marxism. Even someone like you should be able to figure that out. Do you need others to help spell that out for you? We'll let Google be your assistent today: Democratic socialism - Wikipedia.

Democratic socialism is defined as having a socialist economy in which the means of production are socially and collectively owned or controlled[3] alongside a liberal democratic political system of government.[41] Democratic socialists reject most self-described socialist states and Marxism–Leninism.[4
.....

Democratic socialism is contrasted with Marxism–Leninism, which opponents often perceive as being authoritarian, bureaucratic, and undemocratic in practice.[21] Democratic socialists oppose the Stalinist political system and the Soviet-type economic planning system, rejecting as their form of governance the administrative-command system formed in the Soviet Union and other Marxist–Leninist states during the 20th century.[22]

So, again, what Marxist hole do you imagine? The fictional untruth one of your imagination?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
So you consider democratic socialists like Bernie Sanders, to be Marxists? Odd that they reject Marxism. Even someone like you should be able to figure that out. Do you need others to help spell that out for you? We'll let Google be your assistent today: Democratic socialism - Wikipedia.

Democratic socialism is defined as having a socialist economy in which the means of production are socially and collectively owned or controlled[3] alongside a liberal democratic political system of government.[41] Democratic socialists reject most self-described socialist states and Marxism–Leninism.[4
.....

Democratic socialism is contrasted with Marxism–Leninism, which opponents often perceive as being authoritarian, bureaucratic, and undemocratic in practice.[21] Democratic socialists oppose the Stalinist political system and the Soviet-type economic planning system, rejecting as their form of governance the administrative-command system formed in the Soviet Union and other Marxist–Leninist states during the 20th century.[22]

So, again, what Marxist hole do you imagine? The fictional untruth one of your imagination?
I'm sure someone as smart and incredibly intelligent as yourself proactively searches for common denominators shared both by the CPUSA and DSA together, and note any and all commonalities that are mutually and synonymously shared.

I'll provide a helpful hint on one of them, just for starters.

One is called, "Collective Leadership".
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Sure sounds like Islamic anti-Semitism ti me.
And, no, Israel did no hypnotizing here but rather a group of suited monkeys who see it as their Biblical duty to do something with Israel and the Jews (it depends on the denomination what exactly, but it typically involves playing a patronizing father role). They favor Israel for no other reason than the belief they are the people personally favored by their god.

I guess it has little to do with religion. Certain countries are obsessed with Israel because of religion, that's true.
But world peace is what matters and it's so difficult, incredibly difficult to maintain world peace when there is such a political discourse. A priori hostility towards a country as a whole. From Iran, etc...

Thank you for acknowledging this, by the way.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'm sure someone as smart and incredibly intelligent as yourself proactively searches for common denominators shared both by the CPUSA and DSA together, and note any and all commonalities that are mutually and synonymously shared.

I'll provide a helpful hint on one of them, just for starters.

One is called, "Collective Leadership".
I think that is what you are doing in calling it "Marxism", which it is not. That's like saying Jeff Dahmer was a white male. Therefore all white males are cannibals.

If you want to say Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, that's fine. That's accurate. Ilhan Omar however is only just a Democrat, FYI. That too is accurate. That is factual. If you want to say they are are Marxists, then you are being false and insincere. You are in in essence, lying. That's like you claiming all Christians support the Spanish Inquisition.

You should just offer a self-correction here, rather than dig yourself in deeper.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think that is what you are doing in calling it "Marxism", which it is not. That's like saying Jeff Dahmer was a white male. Therefore all white males are cannibals.

If you want to say Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, that's fine. That's accurate. Ilhan Omar however is only just a Democrat, FYI. That too is accurate. That is factual. If you want to say they are are Marxists, then you are being false and insincere. You are in in essence, lying. That's like you claiming all Christians support the Spanish Inquisition.

You should just offer a self-correction here, rather than dig yourself in deeper.
The DSA had in the past, expressed and stated solidarity with Omar. She is not as you put it, only just a Democrat.

DSA Wholeheartedly Supports Representatives Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Who is actually digging oneself deeper remains questionable here.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The DSA had in the past, expressed and stated solidarity with Omar. She is not as you put it, only just a Democrat.
Good for them. She does not identify as a DSA. That is not the ticket she ran on, unlike Bernie Sanders.

Not that the DSA is anything at all as vile as the KKK, but the KKK endorses Donald Trump. Does that mean that Donald Trump is a card-carrying member of the KKK? Does Donald Trump wear a white hood over his orange face?

What your argument would need to show is this. Marxism endorsing the DSA! Can you do that? That would be hard to do, since the DSA disavows Marxism. So even if the DSA likes Omar, that still doesn't mean Marxism!

You're just clutching at straws to save face.

Who is actually digging oneself deeper remains questionable here.
Only in your mind. :)
 
Last edited:

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I guess a question I have for some is why Omar has been stripped of her foreign relations assignment for saying some anti-Semitic things, which she did apologize for, and yet some Pubs who also said as such have been assigned to not only be on such committees but even chair them? Green, for example. Boebert made a cartoon of her killing AOC and Biden with an assault-style rifle.

And now some House Pubs are wearing a lapel-pin of an AR-15.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I guess a question I have for some is why Omar has been stripped of her foreign relations assignment for saying some anti-Semitic things, which she did apologize for, and yet some Pubs who also said as such have been assigned to not only be on such committees but even chair them? Green, for example. Boebert made a cartoon of her killing AOC and Biden with an assault-style rifle.

And now some House Pubs are wearing a lapel-pin of an AR-15.
Easy answer. Unflinching hypocrisy.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Good for them. She does not identify as a DSA. That is not the ticket she ran on, unlike Bernie Sanders.

Not that the DSA is anything at all as vile as the KKK, but the KKK endorses Donald Trump. Does that mean that Donald Trump is a card-carrying member of the KKK? Does Donald Trump wear a white hood over his orange face?

What your argument would need to show is this. Marxism endorsing the DSA! Can you do that? That would be hard to do, since the DSA disavows Marxism. So even if the DSA likes Omar, that still doesn't mean Marxism!

You're just clutching at straws to save face.


Only in your mind. :)
It's not a strawman when articles like this come from the Communist Party of the United States of America.

Turning socialist dreams into American realities

It's not something from my mind, but it is something on my mind.

I welcome you to try harder.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I guess a question I have for some is why Omar has been stripped of her foreign relations assignment for saying some anti-Semitic things, which she did apologize for, and yet some Pubs who also said as such have been assigned to not only be on such committees but even chair them? Green, for example. Boebert made a cartoon of her killing AOC and Biden with an assault-style rifle.

And now some House Pubs are wearing a lapel-pin of an AR-15.
I guess it depends on what the committee is set up for. If it's role is only in an advisory capacity it probably is best to keep her in for her imput and opinions.

If not, there is no doubt as to why she would be excluded. Antisemitism is not a good look or quality for a person givin how close an ally Israel has been to the United States since its inception.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's not a strawman when articles like this come from the Communist Party of the United States of America.
Socialism is not Communism. Socialism is not Marxism. That the Communist party sees some hope for themselves because people are warming up to socialism, that it is not the boogie man that people have made it out to be, is irrelevant to the fact that socialism and Marxism are different animals.

So what if they think this means good news for them. That doesn't make Bernie Sanders a Communist! It doesn't make AOC a Communist. And it doesn't make Ilhan Omar either a socialist or a communist, as she runs as a Democrat!

To help guide you out of the weeds you have thrown yourself into, here's an article explaining how Marxism and Socialism are different animals. Socialism is not Communism either. It did not begin with Marx. It began more with Charles Fourier.

Difference Between Marxism and Socialism | Compare the Difference Between Similar Terms

And now, Democratic Socialism (which Bernie Sanders is), is what you find in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and so forth. Those are not Communist countries. Those are not Marxist states. You need to educate yourself on this more. Democratic Socialist Countries 2023

Socialism vs. Communism
Socialism and communism are both built on the premise that individuals contribute to society based on their ability to do so. Both concepts have the government playing a larger role in economic planning, investment, and government control institutions. Both also remove private business as a producer of goods and services.

There is a big fundamental difference between socialism and communism. Individuals under a proper communist system would not have money and would be given what the government thinks you need in terms of food, clothing, housing, etc. The people would not need to work harder to receive the same amount as anyone else. Under socialism, individuals are compensated based on their individual contribution; therefore, those who work harder would receive more.

Furthermore, communism views all property as public property, while socialism allows individuals to still have their own private property. Communism is an economic and political philosophy, and socialism is an economic philosophy. Lastly, communism abolishes class distinctions as everyone is effectively treated equally, while socialism allows class distinctions to exist, as there is the opportunity for some to achieve more wealth than others.

Democratic Socialism vs. Socialism
Both democratic socialism and socialism advocate for a redistribution of wealth and power to meet public needs, not make profits for a few. Both aim to weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of the working people.

Democratic socialists, however, do not think the government should immediately take control of all aspects of the economy. Democratic socialism focuses more on providing basic needs to all people, such as health care and education. Democratic socialism, unlike socialism, would achieve this through democratic means and not an authoritarian rule.

With what I just underscored, I can get behind 100%. I cannot get behind Communism, which is what you have been conditioned to believe Democratic Socialism is. That's unfortunate, but I hope you understand the difference a little better now.

I welcome you to try harder.
I'm doing all the hard work for you. You could just Google these questions yourself, such as "Is Socialism and Marxism the same thing". It's not hard.
 
Top