Reproduction: A right or a privilege?

[Gloone]

what are you going to do arrest people if they try to reproduce without a license and force them to get an abortion?

No, what makes you think I would do something like that? :run:

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's a right. However I agree we need to do something to curb the population. And given the severity of the over population, I also support tax incentives and penalties to encourage having fewer kids.

 

[Atomist]

No, what makes you think I would do something like that? :run:

No I'm saying the license idea for reproduction is absurd because the way you punish them for trying to reproduce without a license is immoral.

 

[Skwim]

So you're saying it's not possible for the money to be just enough without the tax but too much with...

besides I don't even get what you mean by that... how can it be morally irresponsible to bring a child into their life if money is tight. I mean there is no definition of money being tight that is coherent... If it's not morally permissible to bring a child into life say making x amount of money... in say America... where X is in the even 50% percentile in the world (a very conservative number imo) then that implies nearly all of africa/india/china shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

My point is you can't set the standard on whether someone isn't "financially able to reproduce", but taking resources away from children that exist is just absurd.

No one is setting any standard.

 

[Atomist]

No one is setting any standard.

But you're arguing that it's morally irresponsible for people financially strapped to reproduce... and I'm arguing that there isn't a coherent definition of financially strapped. Unless it is something like "not able to feed, clothe and provide shelter for their children" but then even that may be too strict as a huge % of people would be acting "morally irresponsible" say nearly of africa?

 

[Sunstone]

Reproduction is probably the most fundamental of all human rights. Any government that seeks to take it away is almost by that act alone a tyranny. Which is something of a tragedy, given the earth is over populated with us.

 

[Kerr]

If household monies are so tight that an additional tax would harm the child then the parents are morally irresponsible to bring a child into their life in the first place.

Maybe, maybe not, but that doesn´t make it a good idea to tax more and thereby making it even worse for the kids. If anything that would make the people who did such a tax change morally irresponsible.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If anything that would make the people who did such a tax change morally irresponsible.

I think it would make them very responsible in realizing we are facing an over population crises. And since we favor abstinence only education in America our problem isn't likely to get any better. And even then we have such a huge population that for the benefit of our own species and the world it needs to be reduced.

 

[Skwim]

But you're arguing that it's morally irresponsible for people financially strapped to reproduce... and I'm arguing that there isn't a coherent definition of financially strapped. Unless it is something like "not able to feed, clothe and provide shelter for their children" but then even that may be too strict as a huge % of people would be acting "morally irresponsible" say nearly of africa?

I would say . "not able to adequately feed, clothe and provide shelter for their children." As far as those in Africa goes, that's neither here nor there. The United States doesn't control what they choose to do.

 

[Atomist]

I would say . "not able to adequately feed, clothe and provide shelter for their children." As far as those in Africa goes, that's neither here nor there. The United States doesn't control what they choose to do.

so your saying the standard for reproduction is different? for US and for africa? if so why? that seems completely arbitrary

 

[Zadok]

I don't think I would like to live in a place where they tell who you can have sex with and if you can have a baby or not.

Even if that place is heaven?

Zadok

 

[Skwim]

so your saying the standard for reproduction is different? for US and for africa? if so why? that seems completely arbitrary

What constitutes "financially strapped" and adequately feeding, clothing and providing shelter for their children in Africa, or its individual countries, will likely not be the same as it is in the USA, and that regardless of this fact, we can't put our noses in their business.

 

[Atomist]

What constitutes "financially strapped" and adequately feeding, clothing and providing shelter for their children in Africa, or its individual countries, will likely not be the same as it is in the USA, and that regardless of this fact, we can't put our noses in their business.

so basically what your saying is that there is a standard of life that Americans should have and if you don't meet that standard then it would be immoral to reproduce in america even though that standard is arbitrarily high in comparison to the rest of the world.

 

[ChristineES]

Even if that place is heaven?

Zadok

I mean on Earth.

 

[Skwim]

so basically what your saying is that there is a standard of life that Americans should have and if you don't meet that standard then it would be immoral to reproduce in america even though that standard is arbitrarily high in comparison to the rest of the world.

Not arbitrarily high, but depended on prevailing conditions. Societies are not equal in their opportunities/provisions, so what may be adequate in one, providing advanced education, for example, may not be the same in one where advanced education is an uncommon luxury.

 

[Atomist]

Not arbitrarily high, but depended on prevailing conditions. Societies are not equal in their opportunities/provisions, so what may be adequate in one, providing advanced education, for example, may not be the same in one where advanced education is an uncommon luxury.

I don't think you understand the problem... how can you judge whether a life is worth living or not which is the heart of deciding whether someone can reproduce or not.

I mean it's a very american thing to say having x makes your life better than not having x. I mean there are schools of thought that runs contrary to that... say Cynicism