Republican House Whip Shot!

[Bob the Unbeliever]

IMO, congress is perhaps more consistently and deeply corrupt then it has ever been. While I hold the GOP a bit more accountable than the Dems, congress is too frequently the enemy of the American people.

In what weird alternate dimension? Or do you mean by "accountable" as "bought and paid for by large corporations"?

Because that is certainly the case-- both sides are owned by Big Corp, but the GOP far more so than the Dems.

And I reject that-- Corporations should never have been granted rights of ownership...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Not necessarily. Yes private sales can be conducted without a background check but these sales must comply with the GCA of 1968 and state laws
From : Buying and Selling a Firearm: Private Sales Explained
There are many things to consider when dealing with private sales, and the first is if it is legal in your state. Not all states allow private sales, and some have certain restrictions that you should be aware of. For example, in California private sales must be completed through licensed firearm dealers. Connecticut requires the person making the transfer to get an authorization number before such sales can be completed, and forbids the transfer of long guns unless certain conditions are met. A number of other states have similar restrictions. It is also illegal to sell a firearm to a resident of another state without going through a dealer, and sellers cannot ship directly to (non-FFL) buyers in another state. Selling to convicted felons and any other prohibited purchaser is illegal as well.

That's all well and good, but since there are no border checks for California? All someone needs do, is go next door to, say Nevada, to make a gun sale, no record, no fuss, no muss...

That's one of several problems that those advocating for more regulations would like addressed...

 

[tytlyf]

As usual you and others are looking at this in the wrong manner. You are blaming the firearm for suicides whereas you should be looking a why their are more suicides. But those like you can't see past your obsession with what you want to blame.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/health/us-suicide-rate-surges-to-a-30-year-high.html

Most gun deaths are by suicide in America, not murders/homicides. Guns make suicide easier, which explains why areas with more guns have more suicides.
Guns are killing tools. Which make suicide a breeze for some people. This is another reason why people with PTSD should be barred from owning weapons.

 

[esmith]

That's all well and good, but since there are no border checks for California? All someone needs do, is go next door to, say Nevada, to make a gun sale, no record, no fuss, no muss...

That's one of several problems that those advocating for more regulations would like addressed...

The only problem is with your possible uninformed knowledge of the GCA of 1968 or State laws is if a resident of CA (using your example) who is the seller goes to Nevada to sell a firearm to another resident of CA has just broken the laws of CA. Now if the seller who is a CA resident (still using your example) goes to Nevada and sells a weapon to a Nevada resident they have broken a federal law.

 

[esmith]

Most gun deaths are by suicide in America, not murders/homicides. Guns make suicide easier, which explains why areas with more guns have more suicides.
Guns are killing tools. Which make suicide a breeze for some people. This is another reason why people with PTSD should be barred from owning weapons.

Again you are looking at the tool behind the suicide not the reason for the suicide, can you not understand that.

 

[leibowde84]

Not necessarily. Yes private sales can be conducted without a background check but these sales must comply with the GCA of 1968 and state laws
From : Buying and Selling a Firearm: Private Sales Explained
There are many things to consider when dealing with private sales, and the first is if it is legal in your state. Not all states allow private sales, and some have certain restrictions that you should be aware of. For example, in California private sales must be completed through licensed firearm dealers. Connecticut requires the person making the transfer to get an authorization number before such sales can be completed, and forbids the transfer of long guns unless certain conditions are met. A number of other states have similar restrictions. It is also illegal to sell a firearm to a resident of another state without going through a dealer, and sellers cannot ship directly to (non-FFL) buyers in another state. Selling to convicted felons and any other prohibited purchaser is illegal as well.

Nevertheless, private sales can be conducted without a background check, right? That was all I said.

 

[esmith]

Nevertheless, private sales can be conducted without a background check, right? That was all I said.

Only in certain States.

 

[tytlyf]

Again you are looking at the tool behind the suicide not the reason for the suicide, can you not understand that.

I do understand that. A firearm is designed to kill quickly. Which is why it's the solution of choice for people contemplating suicide.
Wouldn't you agree that the logical approach is not allowing mentally ill people to obtain a weapon?

 

[james bond]

You said: "Certainly, it's not anything goes, as we have enough protections already."
I said: "So, you don't think people who buy guns should have to pass a background check?"

Currently, due to the private sale loophole, anyone can buy a gun without going through a background check. Since you said that we have all of the protections we need, it follows that you don't think background checks are necessary.

What private sale loophole? I've bought private sale guns before.

 

[leibowde84]

What private sale loophole? I've bought private sale guns before.

There are states where background checks are not required for private sales and gun sales. Thus, in those states, anyone can get guns without a background check.

 

[esmith]

I do understand that. A firearm is designed to kill quickly. Which is why it's the solution of choice for people contemplating suicide.
Wouldn't you agree that the logical approach is not allowing mentally ill people to obtain a weapon?

and what does that have to do with suicides? Oh I think I have an answer....you don't have a answer why those of you are focused on the tool vice the problem--suicide.

 

[suncowiam]

Ok, let change the 2nd Amendment to read:
The right of citizens to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed except when that right has been removed by adjudication.

At least thats more clear but I would not agree with your version. I do like the adjudication part.

 

[esmith]

At least thats more clear but I would not agree with your version. I do like the adjudication part.

So how do you want it to read and why?

 

[suncowiam]

So how do you want it to read and why?

I rather have it abolished and treat guns like any other industry.

This is not to suggest that citizens can't own guns. They can but they have to prove that they will be responsible.

We don't have amendments suggestion that all citizens can drive automobiles? That they can use medicine?

If good citizens can still own guns, then do we still need some archaic fluff about oppressive government that has not happened since creation of the amendment?

I mean if we're really scared of an oppressive government, then an organized private militia should be the focus. Not guns. They should have whatever resources they feel is needed to match the level of the current government. This includes training, military vehicles, armaments and so on. Why stop at guns when a government as powerful as the US has so much more especially as technology advances over time?

 

[suncowiam]

I think you would be more honest to say "can be" vice "are".
In your regulation that would be government control of a legally established private businesses. Sure you want to go down that road?

Painted my living room this weekend so was very busy.

Not following you exactly. There are many private industries that are regulated for the safety of the population.

Car, airline, medicine, tobacco, agriculture... The list goes on. Why is this such a big deal?

Safety is the biggest factor granted one could argue some regulations are redundant causing extra cost. But, but, but, but the goal is safety. Is that not what we all want?

 

[esmith]

Painted my living room this weekend so was very busy.

Not following you exactly. There are many private industries that are regulated for the safety of the population.

Car, airline, medicine, tobacco, agriculture... The list goes on. Why is this such a big deal?

Safety is the biggest factor granted one could argue some regulations are redundant causing extra cost. But, but, but, but the goal is safety. Is that not what we all want?

How do you like your new gas can?

 

[suncowiam]

How do you like your new gas can?

Have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[esmith]

Have no idea what you're talking about.

Haven't purchase a new CARB compliant gas can have you?
You spill more gas trying to use the damn things that was ever spilled by the old gas cans. You government at work. Oh by the way the old/new regulations put a company out of business

 

[suncowiam]

Haven't purchase a new CARB compliant gas can have you?
You spill more gas trying to use the damn things that was ever spilled by the old gas cans. You government at work. Oh by the way the old/new regulations put a company out of business

I gave the notion that some regulations could be redundant, but the focus should always remain on safety first than cost. Not disagreeing with you that some regulations are probably not doing as its intended either. It's a case per case.