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Republicans Need Change

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
The future success of the Republican Party is contingent on their willingness to evolve, to represent the will of the people, and to allow for a separation between that which they believe and that which is the business of government. The Republican Party must change its’ position on Gay Marriage, without demanding an acceptance of the behavior. Conservative, constitutional-Republican values have been whittled away by moralist, theocratic nonsense. This has to stop today. For the growing number of “Conservative Christians”, please understand that there is a difference between something being morally wrong and something being illegal.

It is fine to believe that homosexuality is morally wrong, but it is another thing to make it illegal and to deny homosexuals their equal rights under the law. Even Jesus said to hate the sin, but not the sinner. How can Republicans respect themselves if they are unwilling to respect the equal rights of the people that they disagree with? Christian values can be fought for, but they must be fought for in the court of public opinion, and on the cultural battlefield – NOT in Washington, DC, NOT on the floor of the Senate, and not from the office of the Executive.

The Republican Party must also jump on board with the Environmentalists. They must do this, not because they agree with the “environmentalist wackos” that think human beings are going to destroy the earth and cause global warming, but because there is nothing fundamentally more important to the health of every citizen than clean air, clean water, and clean land. Republicans must become environmentalists and encourage corporations to do their share, for their own benefits. Environmental technology is now being endorsed by the President of the United States, but what is actually being done about it?

The Republican Party must become a fiscally responsible party! I would like to see Bill Frist stand up in front of the Republican Party and the American People and say, “Twelve years ago we were put into power as the party of Reform, and we have failed to deliver. But as of today, we are willing to work with Democrats, in a bipartisan effort to cut spending, to make the tax-cuts permanent, and to coordinate with the States where necessary. We cannot cut spending and taxes at the federal level, without making sure that this won’t mean spending and tax increases at the State level. The American people want reform, lower taxes, a balanced budget, and honest government, and we mean to deliver. We have failed over the last twelve years because we’ve been trying to keep our jobs. We have been more concerned with politics than we have been with serving the American people – But be assured, we know what you want and we mean to deliver”.

If the Republicans do that, they will gain seats in the House and the Senate in 2006, they will win in 2008. If they don’t, they are screwed. There is more going on in this country than the war on terror.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Fortunately change is inevitable.

That is the one sure thing in this world.
You can hold the tide for a short while but the tide will be building up pressure, and when it bursts, it will not be on your own terms,
Much better to welcome change and work with it and guide it.
Polititicans forget this in trying to please their supporters.

That is why we get the swing between parties all the time; with one lot undoing the others progress.
How you will ever get Politicians to co-operate is anyones guess, but it is what is needed.

Terry_____________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
For a while now I've been thinking about how we can shut up the Christian Conservatives in the Republican Party, but then I realized that I had the same idiotic exclusiveness that makes Christian conservatives so damn annoying in the first place. So, the answer is to change their mind on the ideas. Talk to them about politics, instead of religion. Talk to them about the importance of cultural freedom, the same cultural freedom that protects their right to worship god however they like. I want to talk to them about Political Science, about constitutional government, about limited government, about free markets... about being a Republican. If they want to be a conservative, then they need to be a conservative. They can't talk about how backwards Islamic Fundamentalists are on a Tuesday, and then deny homosexuals their equal rights on a Wednesday. It's just not right.

Republicans and Democrats need not fight over equal rights. We all need to be for equal rights. We need not fight over the environment. We all need a clean environment. Let's fight over economics, Capitalism vs. Socialism and all those ugly little hybrids in between. Let's fight over taxes, over states' rights, over the death penalty and gun control, over foreign policy, and over our spending on NASA and the Arts. Let's argue over politics, not morals. Let the left-wing socialist moralists fall on the sword of morality, they are used to stabbing themselves in the political chest... conservatives would be wise to let it go and act responsible.
 

retrorich

SUPER NOT-A-MOD
The Republicans need to nominate a presidential candidate in 2008 who can command the support and respect of a broad range of thinking voters--not a pea-brained, trigger-happy, homophobic religious hypocrite like George W. Bush. John McCain would be my choice over any other likely candidate in either party. I consider myself to be a Democrat, but I would definitely vote for him if he runs against Hillary Clinton.
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
retrorich said:
The Republicans need to nominate a presidential candidate in 2008 who can command the support and respect of a broad range of thinking voters--not a pea-brained, trigger-happy, homophobic religious hypocrite like George W. Bush. John McCain would be my choice over any other likely candidate in either party. I consider myself to be a Democrat, but I would definitely vote for him if he runs against Hillary Clinton.

John McCain is a terrible choice, and a majority of conservatives won't vote for him. What we need is someone who is a real economic and political conservative (not a moderate), and someone who is socially liberal... or at least tolerant.
 

spacemonkey

Pneumatic Spiritualist
Darkdale said:
John McCain is a terrible choice, and a majority of conservatives won't vote for him. What we need is someone who is a real economic and political conservative (not a moderate), and someone who is socially liberal... or at least tolerant.
The problem is, there no longer IS a economic and political conservative party. The old Republican party is gone, replaced by a party that is just as much for a bloated federal government as any Democrat. The Republican party of today is conservative on "moral" issues alone.
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
spacemonkey said:
The problem is, there no longer IS a economic and political conservative party. The old Republican party is gone, replaced by a party that is just as much for a bloated federal government as any Democrat. The Republican party of today is conservative on "moral" issues alone.

Don't I know it! :) But I can't fight the Republicans by supporting the democrats. I can't help create change by trying to put Libertarians into Federal offices (I usually vote for them at the local level whenever possible). So, when I talk to Republicans, I'm an evil self-righteous ******* about the Christian Conservative influence on the party. My libertarian friends HATE that I support the National GOP, but the Libertarians are too busy smoking pot and talking about becoming an isolationist country, and that won't get them anywhere in national politics.

The Republicans are the only hope for economic & political conservatives. The Democrats aren't that much worse, but they are worse. No one else is in a position to be effective, so there you have it. The Republicans are all we have.
 

retrorich

SUPER NOT-A-MOD
Perhaps the best scenario would be for John McCain to run as an Independent. I think he could defeat both Hillary Clinton running as a Democrat, and a George W. Bush clone running as a Republican. Maybe we could also have an Anti-Gay Party candidate, to give the Christians someone to vote for. ;)
 

Flappycat

Well-Known Member
Noooooooooo! I want them to shoot themselves in the foot! Their voting base is shrinking as fast as old ladies can kick the bucket.

One of these days, they'll have the crummy end of a voting population they went to a lot of trouble to split.

Society will change in spite of them. Politicians don't dictate to society its views.

One of these days, they'll wake up and realize that nobody votes for them anymore.
 

Ardent Listener

Active Member
Darkdale said:
The future success of the Republican Party is contingent on their willingness to evolve, to represent the will of the people, and to allow for a separation between that which they believe and that which is the business of government. The Republican Party must change its’ position on Gay Marriage, without demanding an acceptance of the behavior. Conservative, constitutional-Republican values have been whittled away by moralist, theocratic nonsense. This has to stop today. For the growing number of “Conservative Christians”, please understand that there is a difference between something being morally wrong and something being illegal.

It is fine to believe that homosexuality is morally wrong, but it is another thing to make it illegal and to deny homosexuals their equal rights under the law. Even Jesus said to hate the sin, but not the sinner. How can Republicans respect themselves if they are unwilling to respect the equal rights of the people that they disagree with? Christian values can be fought for, but they must be fought for in the court of public opinion, and on the cultural battlefield – NOT in Washington, DC, NOT on the floor of the Senate, and not from the office of the Executive.

The Republican Party must also jump on board with the Environmentalists. They must do this, not because they agree with the “environmentalist wackos” that think human beings are going to destroy the earth and cause global warming, but because there is nothing fundamentally more important to the health of every citizen than clean air, clean water, and clean land. Republicans must become environmentalists and encourage corporations to do their share, for their own benefits. Environmental technology is now being endorsed by the President of the United States, but what is actually being done about it?

The Republican Party must become a fiscally responsible party! I would like to see Bill Frist stand up in front of the Republican Party and the American People and say, “Twelve years ago we were put into power as the party of Reform, and we have failed to deliver. But as of today, we are willing to work with Democrats, in a bipartisan effort to cut spending, to make the tax-cuts permanent, and to coordinate with the States where necessary. We cannot cut spending and taxes at the federal level, without making sure that this won’t mean spending and tax increases at the State level. The American people want reform, lower taxes, a balanced budget, and honest government, and we mean to deliver. We have failed over the last twelve years because we’ve been trying to keep our jobs. We have been more concerned with politics than we have been with serving the American people – But be assured, we know what you want and we mean to deliver”.

If the Republicans do that, they will gain seats in the House and the Senate in 2006, they will win in 2008. If they don’t, they are screwed. There is more going on in this country than the war on terror.
Great post and great ideas. But my question is; Will they? Republicans are in the White House, they control both the House and Senate. The Supreme Court how leans towards being so called "conservative". Why should they make "radical" changes to their platform now? That is, besides wanting to do what is best for America?
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
Ardent Listener said:
Great post and great ideas. But my question is; Will they? Republicans are in the White House, they control both the House and Senate. The Supreme Court how leans towards being so called "conservative". Why should they make "radical" changes to their platform now? That is, besides wanting to do what is best for America?

Yes. They will. I think.

Because the one thing that people in power want to do is to stay in power. President Bush could widen the Republican Party and destroy the Democrats in one single speech:

"America, gone are the days when we fought amongst ourselves on the floors of Congress, over morality and righteousness. We stood face to face with a Terror, and with hatred, that was bred of exclusive ideology, and we cannot afford to hang on to our own antiquated bigotries any longer. My Fellow Americans, there was a time when blacks and whites were uncomfortable together, but now we stand equal under the law, we serve side by side in the military, and God is blessing us with children of many hues. There was a time when women were second-class citizens, and now they are the majority in our universities, the are the leading minds in the country, and they hold such offices as the Secretary of State. It is time to put away our prejudice against homosexuals. To put away our prejudice, does not mean that we have to sacrifice our values, but instead, to celebrate those most Christian of values: Equality, Liberty, and Compassion.

America, gone are the days of debating over the environment. Who among us desires dirty water, polluted land, and unbreathable air? If we can't all get on board with protecting our environment, then how can we ever stand united as a people? One People. The American People. Equal, under God".

That is a speech (or a version written by people who can write good speeches) that could win the Republicans the congress and White House for years to come. If only we had someone with some courage. Gay rights & the Environment are two issues that Republicans are just flat out wrong on.

Could you imagine a political party whose ideas where big enough to include gay-rights activists and radical Christian Conservatives? Talk about Pluralism! It would make me happy to see such a thing.
 

Ardent Listener

Active Member
Darkdale said:
Yes. They will. I think.

Because the one thing that people in power want to do is to stay in power. President Bush could widen the Republican Party and destroy the Democrats in one single speech:

"America, gone are the days when we fought amongst ourselves on the floors of Congress, over morality and righteousness. We stood face to face with a Terror, and with hatred, that was bred of exclusive ideology, and we cannot afford to hang on to our own antiquated bigotries any longer. My Fellow Americans, there was a time when blacks and whites were uncomfortable together, but now we stand equal under the law, we serve side by side in the military, and God is blessing us with children of many hues. There was a time when women were second-class citizens, and now they are the majority in our universities, the are the leading minds in the country, and they hold such offices as the Secretary of State. It is time to put away our prejudice against homosexuals. To put away our prejudice, does not mean that we have to sacrifice our values, but instead, to celebrate those most Christian of values: Equality, Liberty, and Compassion.

America, gone are the days of debating over the environment. Who among us desires dirty water, polluted land, and unbreathable air? If we can't all get on board with protecting our environment, then how can we ever stand united as a people? One People. The American People. Equal, under God".

That is a speech (or a version written by people who can write good speeches) that could win the Republicans the congress and White House for years to come. If only we had someone with some courage. Gay rights & the Environment are two issues that Republicans are just flat out wrong on.

Could you imagine a political party whose ideas where big enough to include gay-rights activists and radical Christian Conservatives? Talk about Pluralism! It would make me happy to see such a thing.
Heck Darkdale, I would vote for you based on the speech you wrote. But I'm still not convinced that the Republicans would risk their coalition with the "radical" Christain Conservatives to do what ( I belive) is right and welcome the gays aboard as protectors of their constitutional (and human) rights.

We often hear that the Democrats are a coalition of different fraction groups, but the same really holds true of Republicans. If those fractions were to break away we would see more political parties formed like we see in Europe.

I had a thread on; What should the R.F. Party have as its platform? But of course I lost it when I went to post it.:banghead3 Maybe that was for the best. But still, I have to wonder just how much we can all can agree on here at R.F. politically? Even though I still consider myself a democrat, I would be very open to a progressive party that would put the constitution and American people first . If it happend to be Republican then so be it.

But I would like to hear more of your thoughts on other issues such as immigration and outsourcing jobs out of America before I cast my vote for you.;)
 

Ardent Listener

Active Member
retrorich said:
Get rid of the "under God" part, and you just might have something there.
A motion for taking "under God" out of the platform. I'll second it even though it sounds official and "Founding Fathers" like. For those who believe in God, don't worry, God will understand.
 

Ardent Listener

Active Member
Ardent Listener said:
A motion for taking "under God" out of the platform. I'll second it even though it sounds official and "Founding Fathers" like. For those who believe in God, don't worry, God will understand.
I move that we replace the words "under God" with under the Constitution.
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
Ardent Listener said:
We often hear that the Democrats are a coalition of different fraction groups, but the same really holds true of Republicans. If those fractions were to break away we would see more political parties formed like we see in Europe.


But I would like to hear more of your thoughts on other issues such as immigration and outsourcing jobs out of America before I cast my vote for you.;)

1. I would be interesting in seeing more parties; I think we would have better representation. Of course, I think it is possible that we'd just have more fighting and get less done. *shrugs*

2. My position on immigration has changed over the last few years. At this point, I think we simply need to drastically relax our immigration laws. Folk used to just get off a boat, get tested for lice and disease, and then they were citizens. I think we need to relax our standards, but I think we need to be willing to suffer the immediate consequences: ghettos, 10% unemployment, and higher costs for education would all be realities. But in the long run, freedom works. The grandchildren of these new immigrants will no doubt be the future doctors, inventors, and lawyers of our country... we may even be better off. So I say, let em' in. But document them for security reasons. Anyone who comes over illegally will be put in prison for a year and then sent back to their home nation.

3. I'm fine with outsourcing jobs 95% of the time. Will some Americans lose their jobs? Yes. But many more jobs will be created. Prices will go down and people will be able to spend their money on things that they otherwise would not have been able to afford... we'd just have to hope that some of the products would be made in the USA. More than freedom, I think wealth in the hands of individual citizens, of the Arab world, is the most important weapon we have against terrorism. *shrugs* We'll see about that. Remember, cheaper prices mean more jobs. If for every $2.00 you save at a Walmart, that is $2.00 more that someone else will have. Money keeps going round and round, the more people we have contributing the system, the more wealth there will be... we can all benefit from the widening of the division of labor.

retrorich said:
Get rid of the "under God" part, and you just might have something there.

I was writing in the voice of the Christian Conservative. I'm just as annoyed at the Under God thing as you are, but I see no real harm in them using it, and the more you try to make them stop, the stronger their faith will become, and the more reactionary they'll get. So I think we should leave that alone. Let them pay lipservice to their god. Let everyone express their own faith, in their own way, whether they are a president, a fireman, or a senator. We live in a plural society... let's not make government the only place where more than one idea can't be accepted.
 

retrorich

SUPER NOT-A-MOD
Darkdale said:
Let them pay lipservice to their god.
OK. But let them pay their service elsewhere than on our currency and in a fascist-type pledge of allegiance. Why do we need such a pledge, anyway?
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Darkdale, do you really think Republicans are gonna just give up their "money" wedge issue? They're not stupid. They know that supporting an anti-gay platform gives them a large Christian base to work from. I don't see them just giving up all those votes. I hope I'm wrong. Democrat or Republican, I'll take support from wherever it comes from. But there's a big difference in being not actively anti-gay and being pro-gay. It's coming to the point where there will be no middle ground on this issue. Either you are anti-gay or you are pro-gay. I could maybe imagine the Republican pulling back from their active anti-gay initiatives, but I'm having a hard time seeing them taking up the cause and being a champion of gay rights. Again, I hope I'm wrong.
 
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