Required Reading

[RestlessSoul]

But still essential to understanding the field of psychology.

And I'm not sure he's completely useless.

Jung really isn’t useless, and it’s hardly his fault if modern psychiatry can’t find a use for his ideas. If it can’t, that may be as much a failure of the one as the other.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Jung really isn’t useless, and it’s hardly his fault if modern psychiatry can’t find a use for his ideas. If it can’t, that may be as much a failure of the one as the other.

I think "useless" would be an oversimplified way of discussing his work, since it was a stage in the evolution of psychology as a field. "Outdated" and "[largely] discredited," which are the terms I used in my first post in this thread, seem to me more accurate. It's a fact that evidence-based psychology incorporates approaches and concepts that significantly differ from Jung's work, in much the same way that our understanding of biology has expanded and improved since Darwin's time. It doesn't make Darwin's work "useless"; just outdated and, in many ways, no longer up to par.

As for modern psychiatry, I don't see why one should assume that there's any fault with it for not finding much use for Jung's ideas. I think what matters is whether the current status of psychology, in which Jung's work is barely authoritative, is where the evidence has led modern psychologists. If yes, I think it is responsible on their part to not force his ideas into their work despite evidence that other frameworks and approaches better serve clinical and scientific needs.

Perhaps we could talk about this further in another thread, though, since this one is in General Discussion and therefore can't become a debate.

 

[The Hammer]

I think the central texts of Hinduism would be hard to pin.

What about The Bhagavadgita? It's only a small part of the Mahabharata but it seems to hit on some central themes and concerns.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I honestly can't think of one. 'Hindu' is too much of an umbrella term.

Exactly. Each group has scriptures they use and not all of them even rely on the Vedas, especially when you get into Tantric and LHP sects.

 

[Orbit]

I suggest “The Interpretation of Cultures” by Clifford Geertz and “Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches by Marvin Harris. Both are classics in Cultural Anthropology and have much to do with religion.

 

[Debater Slayer]

[...] “Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches by Marvin Harris.

I just looked that up, and it seems quite interesting. I find a lot of value in dialectical materialism, so I'm curious to check this one out given its apparently similar premise.

 

[Revoltingest]

Broadening the idea of required reading,
I'll include required listening. Podcasts....
- Hidden Brain
- Freakonomics

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think "useless" would be an oversimplified way of discussing his work, since it was a stage in the evolution of psychology as a field. "Outdated" and "[largely] discredited," which are the terms I used in my first post in this thread, seem to me more accurate. It's a fact that evidence-based psychology incorporates approaches and concepts that significantly differ from Jung's work, in much the same way that our understanding of biology has expanded and improved since Darwin's time. It doesn't make Darwin's work "useless"; just outdated and, in many ways, no longer up to par.

As for modern psychiatry, I don't see why one should assume that there's any fault with it for not finding much use for Jung's ideas. I think what matters is whether the current status of psychology, in which Jung's work is barely authoritative, is where the evidence has led modern psychologists. If yes, I think it is responsible on their part to not force his ideas into their work despite evidence that other frameworks and approaches better serve clinical and scientific needs.

Perhaps we could talk about this further in another thread, though, since this one is in General Discussion and therefore can't become a debate.

Yeah, best not hijack this thread. If you want to start one on psychoanalytic therapies, that might be interesting

 

[Debater Slayer]

Yeah, best not hijack this thread.

Definitely.

If you want to start one on psychoanalytic therapies, that might be interesting

If I do, I could tag you if you would like.

 

[JustGeorge]

Exactly. Each group has scriptures they use and not all of them even rely on the Vedas, especially when you get into Tantric and LHP sects.

I find it interesting that while the Vedas said to be the central scripture, most don't plop down with a copy(which can actually be hard to find a translation of) and read. Its not really set up for that, even if you wanted to.

My personal scripture of choice is the Mahabharata, but I realize a Saivite or Shakta might not feel called to it at all(I consider myself eclectic).

 

[Secret Chief]

But still essential to understanding the field of psychology.

If you say so. I took my BSc in psychology in the late 70s. In the introductory week Freud got one lecture as a historically important figure (as did William James). Never mentioned again.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm thinking culture in general, I'm my case Western culture.

Um, to start...The Illiad, the Odyssey, the Aeneid, the New Testament, the Eddas, Shakespeare, the Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, Grimm's Fairy Tales...

 

[Altfish]

Anything that the GOP want to ban is required reading.

 

[sun rise]

What would you consider a seminal text?

seminal (of a work, event, moment, or figure) strongly influencing later developments.

Thinking about this question caused me to remember the TV Series "Connections" Burke contends that one cannot consider the development of any particular piece of the modern world in isolation. Rather, the entire gestalt of the modern world is the result of a web of interconnected events, each one consisting of a person or group acting for reasons of their own motivations (e.g., profit, curiosity, religion) with no concept of the final, modern result to which the actions of either them or their contemporaries would lead. The interplay of the results of these isolated events is what drives history and innovation, and is also the main focus of the series and its sequels.

Of course the series was about material objects, but I wonder if the idea applies in other realms. If nothing else, I might offer that series as seminal in causing people to think in less linear terms

 

[Debater Slayer]

Um, to start...The Illiad, the Odyssey, the Aeneid, the New Testament, the Eddas, Shakespeare, the Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, Grimm's Fairy Tales...

Solid choices. I would also add Meditations, Atlas Shrugged, Charles Dickens, Tolkien, and perhaps the Harry Potter series (for a more recent culturally influential work).

I realize that the list couldn't be exhaustive no matter how long this post got, though, since "Western culture" is an extremely broad umbrella and may include different things depending on how one defines it. The Western world has produced an immense amount of cultural, literary, and scientific contributions in the last few centuries in particular, so pinning down several specific works as the most salient or influential is quite a challenging task, if it is at all possible.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Anything that the GOP want to ban is required reading.

Nooooooo, I don't want to read quasi-pornographic gender theory bilge.

 

[Yerda]

Tom Paine.

 

[1137]

Watchmen by Alan Moore

The Works of HP Lovecraft

Cain: A Mystery by Lord Byron

Jewel of the Seven Stars (original) by Bram Stoker

The Black Riders by Stephen Crane

Mindstar by Michael Aquino

Simulacra and Simulation by Jean Baudrillard

The Lords and the New Creatures by Jim Morrison

Philosophy of Religion by William Rowe

 

[Mock Turtle]

Some I have found useful:

Behave (2017) by Robert Sapolsky - attempting to explain why we behave as we do, involving so many aspects of being human

Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind (2015) by Yuval Noah Harari - from insignificant and more primitive ape to being the one exceptionally advanced ape

Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow (2016) by Yuval Noah Harari - following on from the previous book, where we might be headed

A Brief History of Everyone Who Ever Lived (2017) by Adam Rutherford - what our genes, and the history of such, reveal about us

The Bonobo and the Atheist (2014) by Frans de Waal - exploring any biological basis for morality

Guns, Germs, and Steel (1997) by Jared Diamond - proposing how geographical and environmental factors have shaped the modern world

The World Until Yesterday: What Can We Learn From Traditional Societies? (2012) by Jared Diamond - Advancing the view that there is still much to learn from earlier societies that might have been ignored in the rush for progress, and plenty of detail to munch over

The Moral Animal: Why We Are The Way We Are (1994) by Robert Wright - an approach to such via evolutionary psychology. Much to learn about Darwin here too (as a person and his struggles), since his work is used as context to explain and discuss much human behaviour

From Bacteria to Bach And Back: The Evolution of Minds (2017) by Daniel Dennett - a possible explanation for the evolution of consciousness

Religion Explained: The Evolutionary Origins of Religious Thought (2001) by Pascal Boyer - approaches the subject via evolutionary biology and cognitive psychology. Not an easy read, and a bit mixed as to what I might have got from this - which reflects the reviews. This, from Nature.com, perhaps sums up my views - Some form of religious thinking seems to be the path of least resistance for our cognitive systems. By contrast, disbelief is generally the result of deliberate, effortful work against our natural cognitive dispositions — hardly the easiest ideology to propagate.

Life 3.0 (2017) by Max Tegmark - an exploration into how AI might develop and the likely problems associated with such

Survival of the Prettiest: The Science of Beauty (1999) by Nancy Etcoff - a psychologist argues that our concept of beauty is in our biology rather than being a construct


A few more worth a look:

Shrinks: The Untold Story of Psychiatry (2015) by Jeffrey A Lieberman, MD - an account of the painful history of psychiatry and associated treatments

Against Empathy (2016) by Paul Bloom - how empathy is too often local and/or based upon what appeals, and why this might not be so beneficial overall

The Theory of Everything Else: A Voyage Into The World of The Weird (2022) by Dan Schreiber - has a look at so many weird beliefs, which may not be so weird to many (especially on RF), but might explain why so many of us do have beliefs that often defy science or even rationality

The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (1982) by Julian Jaynes - argues for a bicameral mind being in existence until recent times, and worth a read even if not true - as an example of imaginative thinking

 

[Secret Chief]

Nooooooo, I don't want to read quasi-pornographic gender theory bilge.

Or be exposed to pornography created by Michelangelo.