Responding to US withdrawal from climate change accord

[sayak83]

The unilateral withdrawal of US from the Paris climate accord cannot be condemned enough. However given what Mr. Trump was elected upon, it is not surprising. The question here is, how should other nations respond to yet another irresponsible decision by the USA, this time with very damaging consequences for everyone in the world?

I consider that, at the very least, all the national blocks should impose trade tariffs on any and all US goods manufactured without the regulations proposed in the climate accord. Additional trade penalties and sanctions should also be imposed to offset the extra cost of added emissions the US industries will emit by being free from the accords targets.

It's high time for the US to be held accountable for the irresponsible and dictatorial manner it goes about its business.

Thoughts?

The steps towards isolating US has already begun. Strongly approve
As U.S. retreats, EU and China seek climate leadership at summit

 

[bobhikes]

It high time the world took care of itself.

 

[sayak83]

It high time the world took care of itself.

The world will take care of itself. But free riders can't go unpunished. Consequences on reneging on such crucial agreement that affect billions need to be clear and swift.

 

[bobhikes]

The world will take care of itself. But free riders can't go unpunished. Consequences on reneging on such crucial agreement that affect billions need to be clear and swift.

The world should take care of itself whatever needs to be done. 148 of the 195 countries of the world have ratified the agreement with the US pulling out that makes 48 free riders.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The world will take care of itself. But free riders can't go unpunished. Consequences on reneging on such crucial agreement that affect billions need to be clear and swift.

Best to get to work on China then.

 

[sayak83]

Best to get to work on China then.

It's certainly a possibility in the near future. I have been there. They are doing good things on environment and energy. But India is doing well as well. If US becomes isolationist and reality denying, many of us will go out certainly. I expect most businesses will also relocate.

 

[sayak83]

The world should take care of itself whatever needs to be done. 148 of the 195 countries of the world have ratified the agreement with the US pulling out that makes 48 free riders.

Yes. It applies to all of them who have not signed. Though most others who haven't do not have as much emission, so they would have less penalties.

 

[sayak83]

One option for the green states like California will be to create a tag that identifies their products as following the norms of climate agreement so that they avoid emission tariffs in export and hence be more competitive.

 

[Mister Emu]

Why the Paris climate deal is meaningless

Choice portions:

Developing countries actually blocked a requirement that the plans use a common format and metrics, so an INDC need not even mention emissions levels.

China and India has rejected “any obligatory review mechanism for increasing individual efforts of developing countries.”

China’s 60-65 percent target is less ambitious than the level it would reach by continuing with business as usual.

India, meanwhile, managed to lower the bar even further, submitting a report with no promise of emissions ever peaking or declining and only a 33-35 percent reduction in emissions per unit of GDP over the 2005-2030 period. Given India’s recent rate of improving energy efficiency, this actually implies a slower rate of improvement over the next 15 years.

Yep, China and India are doing great.

It was good to get out of this agreement, an agreement of, as you said, "free riders" demanding $100bn a year for doing absolutely nothing to curb emissions.

 

[Nakosis]

Thoughts?

It's all pretty much meaningless. There's was never any enforcement. At most virtue signaling. That's why I expected Trump to change his mind. Staying in staying out doesn't really change much. However there were some diplomatic opportunities by staying in.

I guess it was more important for him to give a symbolic nod to his base. Offer a "better" accord later. Probably still not accomplishing much but allows Trump to take credit for making a better deal for the US.

 

[loopus]

Everything Trump does makes me shake my head. I mean everything. I cannot name one thing that Trump has done that makes me feel even a tiny bit optimistic about my country's near future. I have been trying SO hard to find some glimmer of hope with Trump, some reason to believe that he's going to start acting sensibly, since he is the President of my country and I'm stuck with him for the next four years. But he disappoints me everyday.

 

[sayak83]

The world should take care of itself whatever needs to be done. 148 of the 195 countries of the world have ratified the agreement with the US pulling out that makes 48 free riders.

Actually no. Everybody except Syria and Nicaragua have signed the agreement. 147 have ratified it (made it legally binding) and the rest are in the process of ratification, to be completed over a period of time.

So US joins the hallowed company of Syria and Nicaragua in reneging a treaty of immense consequence which all other nations are implementing. We'll done Trump, and his supporters!

 

[sayak83]

It's all pretty much meaningless. There's was never any enforcement. At most virtue signaling. That's why I expected Trump to change his mind. Staying in staying out doesn't really change much. However there were some diplomatic opportunities by staying in.

I guess it was more important for him to give a symbolic nod to his base. Offer a "better" accord later. Probably still not accomplishing much but allows Trump to take credit for making a better deal for the US.

Usually these things can work without enforcement, as your commitment in such things affects bilateral and multilateral relations greatly.

 

[Mister Emu]

If you want a real climate agreement, everyone has to take the hit. Everyone agrees to no more carbon emissions growth, period. The idea that some countries can be paid to continue growing their carbon emissions at the exact same, or worse, pace as they already are is absurd.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Actually no. Everybody except Syria and Nicaragua have signed the agreement. 147 have ratified it (made it legally binding) and the rest are in the process of ratification, to be completed over a period of time.

So US joins the hallowed company of Syria and Nicaragua in reneging a treaty of immense consequence which all other nations are implementing. We'll done Trump, and his supporters!

Apparently, Nicaragua didn't sign because the accord didn't go far enough.

Only Syria (who may have had some excuses at the time) and the US stand alone. The US has no excuses, and the self-contained bubble of fact-free news on the right, coupled with the lobbying power of the Koch brothers (thanks Supreme Court for the Citizen's United verdict) has started dobig considerable damage that will affect us all.

Do we wait for the older generations to simply die out, or can we somehow force them to turn off cable news and break
the spell now, when this course can be reversed?

In other news, Some coal miners got their picture with Trump a few times. Whoop whoop.

 

[Nietzsche]

Everything Trump does makes me shake my head. I mean everything. I cannot name one thing that Trump has done that makes me feel even a tiny bit optimistic about my country's near future. I have been trying SO hard to find some glimmer of hope with Trump, some reason to believe that he's going to start acting sensibly, since he is the President of my country and I'm stuck with him for the next four years. But he disappoints me everyday.

I mean, eventually he's gonna die. That's at least a little reassuring. It may not be soon enough to really help anything, but as far as we're aware, Trump is indeed mortal. Of course, the eldritch horror living on his head may last until the stars burn out, but that's a different matter all together.

 

[Nietzsche]

Why the Paris climate deal is meaningless

Choice portions:




Yep, China and India are doing great.

It was good to get out of this agreement, an agreement of, as you said, "free riders" demanding $100bn a year for doing absolutely nothing to curb emissions.

The point of the money was so that developing countries don't turn to the quick and easy development strategy, that is coal plants and the like. Renewable and clean energy production is still relatively expensive. This way we eliminate a good chunk of the problem before it has a chance to really set in.

 

[sayak83]

If you want a real climate agreement, everyone has to take the hit. Everyone agrees to no more carbon emissions growth, period. The idea that some countries can be paid to continue growing their carbon emissions at the exact same, or worse, pace as they already are is absurd.

No its not. Every ton of greenhouse gas has an opportunity cost that can be estimated and paid for. The cost increases over time of course. Placing values on things is the best way to go about it. But till then standards can work.

 

[sayak83]

Why the Paris climate deal is meaningless

Choice portions:




Yep, China and India are doing great.

It was good to get out of this agreement, an agreement of, as you said, "free riders" demanding $100bn a year for doing absolutely nothing to curb emissions.

The only rational metric of CO2 emissions is emissions per person, which is quite low for China and India and other developing countries. So yes, any rational agreement has to include significant incentives for low emitting per capita countries to manage their growth in an eco-friendly fashion. Don't like it? Don't care.

 

[Mister Emu]

The point of the money was so that developing countries don't turn to the quick and easy development strategy, that is coal plants and the like.

If the money were to help them not increase their emissions, it would be understandable; but as the article I referenced pointed out, the countries aren't altering their already existing plans. The money isn't producing even an infinitesimal change in the pollution of China and India. In fact, their "targets" are actually lower than predictions if they didn't sign on at all.

Which is my point, this "accord" is for developed countries to pat themselves on the back and for free riders* to leech money for doing nothing.

*any country who agrees to actually reduce their carbon emissions or at least halt its growth isn't included.