Responding to US withdrawal from climate change accord

[Mister Emu]

Don't like it? Don't care.

Well my country just pulled out of the accord because our President didn't like it and you seem to care very much.

 

[sayak83]

If the money were to help them not increase their emissions, it would be understandable; but as the article I referenced pointed out, the countries aren't altering their already existing plans. The money isn't producing even an infinitesimal change in the pollution of China and India. In fact, their "targets" are actually lower than predictions if they didn't sign on at all.

Which is my point, this "accord" is for developed countries to pat themselves on the back and for free riders* to leech money for doing nothing.

*any country who agrees to actually reduce their carbon emissions or at least halt its growth isn't included.

No money has been transferred yet. It is supposed to be transferred in terms of investments in clean energy technology only.

 

[sayak83]

Well my country just pulled out of the accord because our President didn't like it and you seem to care very much.

Oh I don't actually care. I simply expect that there will be trade tariffs levied on US as penalties for pulling out. Actions have consequences. Simple. Same as Brexit in a way, though on a global scale.

Basically whatever advantages Trump thinks he will be getting will be wiped out by increased cost of doing business internationally as countries put in import duties on US goods etc.

 

[loopus]

I mean, eventually he's gonna die. That's at least a little reassuring. It may not be soon enough to really help anything, but as far as we're aware, Trump is indeed mortal. Of course, the eldritch horror living on his head may last until the stars burn out, but that's a different matter all together.

I'd be happy with impeachment. Or resignation. Death would be a bit much.

 

[Mister Emu]

No money has been transferred yet.

Thankfully.

It is supposed to be transferred in terms of investments in clean energy technology only.

When that is tied to actual movement in suppressing emissions, I'll support it. But the plans put in by China and India are an insult, not an offering to help with climate change.

I simply expect that there will be trade tariffs levied on US as penalties for pulling out.

I expect you'll be largely disappointed.

 

[sayak83]

Thankfully.


When that is tied to actual movement in suppressing emissions, I'll support it. But the plans put in by China and India are an insult, not an offering to help with climate change.


I expect you'll be largely disappointed.

No I won't be disappointed.
We can have a debate on a separate thread if what India and China are doing are indeed an insult. In fact I consider China to be leading CO2 reduction efforts globally and India to be investing heavily on it as well. US is widely denounced as a laggard and a truant and this simply ratifies this picture.

India and China can fight climate change without the US

 

[Nietzsche]

I'd be happy with impeachment. Or resignation. Death would be a bit much.

I wasn't trying to imply assassination or the like. Just, he is gonna die. Mother****er is 70 years old.

 

[Mister Emu]

No I won't be disappointed.

Well, you're sure confident. I for one don't think, say China, will spite its economy for the sake of demanding a couple billion dollars for, as I've already posted sourcing for, doing absolutely nothing different.

edit:

We can have a debate on a separate thread if what India and China are doing are indeed an insult.

It seems pertinent to this thread, centered on one country leaving, but if you need it to be another thread, that is fine.

 

[Nakosis]

Usually these things can work without enforcement, as your commitment in such things affects bilateral and multilateral relations greatly.

I don't know, maybe it the showmanship some have accused Trump of.

 

[sayak83]

Well, you're sure confident. I for one don't think, say China, will spite its economy for the sake of demanding a couple billion dollars for, as I've already posted sourcing for, doing absolutely nothing different.

You will see. The countries will add tariffs to get the money US now refuses to give otherwise. Unlike the developed nations, most of the economy of India and China is based on domestic demand and hence is more robust to international shocks as 2008 showed. Further, as US disinvests from clean technology, these will be increasingly manufactured and traded in East Asian and South Asian economies as well as in Latin America. As the climate treaty is reviewed in 2018, I expect there will be lots of bilateral and multilateral agreements that makes it more costly for US to sell its CO2 intensive products outside. That helps and not hinders China's eventual goal of achieving technological dominance of clean energy sector.

 

[Polymath257]

Everything Trump does makes me shake my head. I mean everything. I cannot name one thing that Trump has done that makes me feel even a tiny bit optimistic about my country's near future. I have been trying SO hard to find some glimmer of hope with Trump, some reason to believe that he's going to start acting sensibly, since he is the President of my country and I'm stuck with him for the next four years. But he disappoints me everyday.

As I see it, almost every day is worse than the last. I keep thinking he can't go lower, but somehow he manages.

Fortunately, I know people who can sponsor me if I need to leave quickly. I'm just watching to make sure the Reichstag doesn't catch fire.

 

[sayak83]

I don't know, maybe it the showmanship some have accused Trump of.

It seems as irrational a decision as Brexit with even more long term consequences.

 

[loopus]

I wasn't trying to imply assassination or the like. Just, he is gonna die. Mother****er is 70 years old.

I knew you weren't talking about killing him. I was just saying that I don't want him dead, just out of office.

 

[loopus]

As I see it, almost every day is worse than the last. I keep thinking he can't go lower, but somehow he manages.

Fortunately, I know people who can sponsor me if I need to leave quickly. I'm just watching to make sure the Reichstag doesn't catch fire.

I have a feeling a lot of people will be fleeing the country before this is all over with.

 

[Father Heathen]

America is going to recede into a third world, theocratic, redneck wasteland. The irony is that those who belch and bellow the loudest about loving America are the ones who will be her undoing.

 

[Polymath257]

America is going to recede into a third world, theocratic, redneck wasteland.

It hasn't already??

 

[Father Heathen]

It hasn't already??

Well, even more so.

 

[Mister Emu]

The countries will add tariffs to get the money US now refuses to give otherwise.

What country will gain money by getting into a tariff tiff with America? China for instance has a trade surplus of over 300bn with America.

 

[Mister Emu]

Every ton of greenhouse gas has an opportunity cost that can be estimated and paid for.

Indeed, so why would China be paid to continue progressing its economy on the back of greenhouse gases at the same rate it was before the Paris accord, and America(and other western nations) pay them while we reduce our economic growth by pursuing more ecologically sound avenues?

 

[Nous]

Maybe Trump will push for reforms in the licensing regime for meltdown-proof and proliferation-proof traveling-wave nuclear reactors, because: The Real Obstacle to Responsibly Meeting the World's Energy Needs Is Not Unbelief in AGW