Restructuring the US

[Tarheeler]

“The borders of my eleven American nations are reflected in many different types of maps — including maps showing the distribution of linguistic dialects, the spread of cultural artifacts, the prevalence of different religious denominations, and the county-by-county breakdown of voting in virtually every hotly contested presidential race in our history,” Woodard writes in the Fall 2013 issue of Tufts University’s alumni magazine. “Our continent's famed mobility has been reinforcing, not dissolving, regional differences, as people increasingly sort themselves into like-minded communities.”

Which of the 11 American nations do you live in? - The Washington Post

The idea of the United States, or even all of North America, being restructured into small nations based on various criteria isn't new; it's been discussed off and on for years and many different proposals have been put towards. I'm curious as to what my fellow RFers think about the subject:
Do you think it would be a good idea to bust up the Union?
Would it even be feasible, and would it result in viable nations?
What criteria would you use to draw the boundaries?

(Please don't answer the questions with one-word answers; they're meant to be topics to start the discussion).

Also, I'd be interested in hearing opinions about Mr. Woodard's plan, and seeing other plans put forward.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

The US is already fractured, so starting smaller countries sounds like a good idea. I don't really like the idea of it being geographical, but any other options just seems unfeasible. I would rather see a division based on socio-political ideas, but this would take alot of work, because it would ultimately have to be geographical, which means that alot of people would have to move. As an idea, I think it's real interesting, but it's hard to see any practical way it could be done.

 

[Alceste]

It's a little unnerving that his map includes all of Canada, but I have to confess West coast Canadians may have more in common with West Coast American than with Albertans or Ontarians.

I'm generally in favour of decentralization and greater local sovereignty.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Which of the 11 American nations do you live in? - The Washington Post

I kind of like the idea. Let those who despise social programs, unions, minimum wage and federal intervention (i.e. federal money for disaster relief, EPA, Dept. Of Ed. etc.) have their own nation. Let others have their own.

Do you think it would be a good idea to bust up the Union?

Not in the nation I would want to live in. Love or hate the unions...over the years much of the work week structure we have can be contributed to them. I'm not sure we would even have that if collective bargaining wasn't a factor. Let others live in a nation where corporations can pay you like they do in Vietnam.

Would it even be feasible, and would it result in viable nations?

Yes and no. There are countries that don't have unions but exist. The business owners are doing very well. The people...ehhhh! not so much. I think splitting this country up into multiple nations would be an interesting experiment.

What criteria would you use to draw the boundaries?

North vs. South.....:biglaugh:

No?....too soon?

I live in the Tidewater area so I'd draw the lines that every state to the south of Virginia will be it's own nation with the exception of California. If I can't have Disney World then I'd at least want Disney Land. Besides...Cali. is a pretty Progressive state anyway.

Also, I'd be interested in hearing opinions about Mr. Woodard's plan, and seeing other plans put forward.

His layout is interesting but some of the nations in his list kind of blur together but that's OK...

 

[Tarheeler]

Ok, time to give my two-cents....

I'm kinda split on the issue. I think that our political system has long been ineffective; it was a good system when we were 13 states and had a couple of million people, but it hasn't kept up with either the growth of our nation or the changing demands placed upon it.

To me, we have a choice to make at some point: Either we completely revamp our political system and turn towards a more unitary system, or we break up and allow new nations to form based on the prevailing ideologies that can currently be found.

As for it being feasible, I think it can be now that global commerce is the norm. Without that, I would be worried about some areas being able to secure the needed resources (including food) to truly be viable, and there would still be issues of potentially land-locked or otherwise restricted countries forming. I do think that North America is certainly vast enough and capable of supporting several sovereign nations where the US currently is. Of course, there will be a lot of work to make it an equable split all around and to ensure that those who don't like their new national identity have ample chance to move.

And, while I'm not sure about his boundaries, I do think that separating along ideological lines makes the most sense (provided there is geographical continuity).

Not in the nation I would want to live in. Love or hate the unions...over the years much of the work week structure we have can be contributed to them. I'm not sure we would even have that if collective bargaining wasn't a factor. Let others live in a nation where corporations can pay you like they do in Vietnam.

Sorry, I meant Union as in the United States.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Lol. Without California, the national economy would probably collapse since California's GSP is so huge.

I think America is going to fall apart eventually, anyway. According to that map, I live in Greater Appalachia. I'd much prefer to live on the West Coast, NYC or New England. I hate it here.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Sorry, I meant Union as in the United States.

OK...

Some of our states flirt with the idea of seceding whenever Progressives are in the White House.

I'm just at the point with many of these people and these states to just say forget it. You go ahead and do your own thing.

Personally I see a country (the US) becoming more corporate (corporatocracy) controlled rather a government for and by the people. But since it's been deemed that corporations are people..."We the people" don't stand a chance.

 

[Penumbra]

Which of the 11 American nations do you live in? - The Washington Post

The idea of the United States, or even all of North America, being restructured into small nations based on various criteria isn't new; it's been discussed off and on for years and many different proposals have been put towards. I'm curious as to what my fellow RFers think about the subject:
Do you think it would be a good idea to bust up the Union?
Would it even be feasible, and would it result in viable nations?
What criteria would you use to draw the boundaries?

(Please don't answer the questions with one-word answers; they're meant to be topics to start the discussion).

Also, I'd be interested in hearing opinions about Mr. Woodard's plan, and seeing other plans put forward.

I'd be in favor of splitting it into 2, not 11.

The article's view of South Florida being "part of the Spanish Caribbean" and therefore not even be included in the 11 subsets of North America doesn't make much sense. I've been there, and I've lived there. It's not so different than the rest of the US.

Lol. Without California, the national economy would probably collapse since California's GSP is so huge.

Per capita economics are what's important.

 

[Tarheeler]

I'd be in favor of splitting it into 2, not 11.

What criteria would you use and what would the result look like?

 

[Penumbra]

What criteria would you use and what would the result look like?

There are several southern states that often have claims to want to leave the union, and I'm okay with it. It has been a divide for more than 200 years.

I don't see a reason to break it into 11 pieces or anything like that. California and New York are getting along okay, and so are Pennsylvania and Maine.

It's probably not realistic, it's too messy. But it seems that if it did split, 2 is enough to relieve much of the polarization.

 

[dust1n]

If there is going to be a split, I really hope there is at least a couple months forewarning.

 

[MD]

There won't be a split, infact as resources continue to dwindle I think the US will eventually annex Canada.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

My view is that none of this matters. We are becoming a corporate driven society. It isn't by accident. Many tout capitalism and the "free market"...and how "government should just get out of the way"....and there's a really big effort on the part of businesses to drive political policy. Look no further than ALEC and American Right To Life. These two organizations (among many others) are on the forefront of drafting legislative policies that our local, state and federal governments present and vote on. Many of these bills become law. Much of it isn't in OUR best interest. An overwhelming majority of our political leaders are members of ALEC and ALEC receives 98% of its money from the business community. The idea of splitting this country up in to 2 or 11 piece nations is but a novel idea. The status quo means to keep things just the way they are.