Resurrected Christ: So what? Still not the Messiah?

[Mythos40]

The following questions are not about the questionable historicity of the resurrected Christ (as opposed to the historical Jesus).

So what if there's a resurrected Christ? Still not the Messiah?

Why did he not immediately reestablish the state of Israel, and succeed where Bar Kokhba failed? (Isa. 24:23)
Why did he not immediately return the Ten Lost Tribes and the diaspora of Judah to Israel? (Isa. 11:12)
Why did he not immediately inspire "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" to follow the commandments? (Eze. 37:24)
[Better yet: Why did he not immediately do so by means of mass revelation, not unlike at Mt. Sinai?]
Why did he not immediately inspire or wipe out all weapons of war? (Mic. 4:3, Isa. 2:4, and Eze. 39:9)
Why did he not immediately inspire the various foreign inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Persia, Greece, Rome, and elsewhere to recognize the wrongs they did to Israel? (Isa. 52 and 53)
Why did he not immediately cause knowledge of God to fill the world? (Isa. 11:9)
Why did he not immediately inspire the world to serve God? (Isa. 66:23)
Why did he not immediately establish permanent world peace? (Mic. 4:3 and Isa. 2:4)
Why did he not immediately replace the existing temple with a larger eschatological temple? (Eze. 37:26-27 and ch. 40-48)

Was doing the Christian Devil, chief priests, scribes, and elders one better (Matt. 4:6 and 27:41-42), bringing forward the Second Coming and strengthening the case of personal salvation, too much to ask?

[Answers like "in the Lord's time" won't do.]

 

[Rival]

He did none of these things because he was not the moshiach.

 

[rocala]

He did none of these things because he was not the moshiach.

Knock out in round 1. Well done

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

He did none of these things because he was not the moshiach.

Going Chabad on us?

Just FYI == I suspect that you can be Noahide without peppering your posts with Ashkenazi-vocalized Jewish terms. ​

 

[shunyadragon]

None of this determines whether Jesus Christ was a Messiah.

 

[Rival]

Going Chabad on us?

Just FYI == I suspect that you can be Noahide without peppering your posts with Ashkenazi-vocalized Jewish terms. ​

You are right. I don't use these spellings on purpose. I pick them up without realising I actually try not to. I did infact make a post about it once. I listen to a Breslover Rav on YouTube a lot and the speech rubs off on me. Oddly, he uses a Sefardi pattern though.

And I don't mean to go all Chabad...it's just...they get you eventually...there's nothing you can do...

 

[Naama]

None of this determines whether Jesus Christ was a Messiah.

Judaism would beg to differ kind dear.....

 

[shunyadragon]

Judaism would beg to differ kind dear.....

So would Christians. I believe unless the Messiah/Avatar/Enlightened One can be expressed in some context of the universal spiritual advancement of humanity instead of the self serving egocentric claim of tradition of one religion or the other over all others, than it is nothing more than ancient mythology perpetuated to justify the exclusiveness of one religion over all others.

I might add that an ancient religion, like Judaism, based on mythology and exclusive and the stoic clinging to an ethnic exclusiveness, does not carry much weight of authority with me. If I wish to comprehend the spiritual nature of our existence and humanity I would turn to a more universal and inclusive spiritual view of the nature of our existence.

God is not a chess player
with the white pieces
God is the sea
. . . and we are the fishes!

 

[Naama]

So would Christians. I believe unless the Messiah/Avatar/Enlightened One can be expressed in some context of the universal spiritual advancement of humanity instead of the self serving egocentric claim of tradition of one religion or the other over all others, than it is nothing more than ancient mythology perpetuated to justify the exclusiveness of one religion over all others.

I might add that an ancient religion, like Judaism, based on mythology and exclusive and the stoic clinging to an ethnic exclusiveness, does not carry much weight of authority with me. If I wish to comprehend the spiritual nature of our existence and humanity I would turn to a more universal and inclusive spiritual view of the nature of our existence.

God is not a chess player
with the white pieces
God is the sea
. . . and we are the fishes!

So I must ask you something.....I looked into a little bit of your religion, and you believe Siddhartha was essentially a prophet correct?

 

[shunyadragon]

So I must ask you something.....I looked into a little bit of your religion, and you believe Siddhartha was essentially a prophet correct?

Siddhartha would more of an Enlightened or an Avatar in a broader scope of the cyclic evolution and spiritual enlightenment of humanity.

 

[Naama]

Siddhartha would more of an Enlightened or an Avatar in a broader scope of the cyclic evolution and spiritual enlightenment of humanity.

Do you believe that his teachings were accurate?

 

[Brickjectivity]

The following questions are not about the questionable historicity of the resurrected Christ (as opposed to the historical Jesus).

So what if there's a resurrected Christ? Still not the Messiah?

Why did he not immediately reestablish the state of Israel, and succeed where Bar Kokhba failed? (Isa. 24:23)
Why did he not immediately return the Ten Lost Tribes and the diaspora of Judah to Israel? (Isa. 11:12)
Why did he not immediately inspire "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" to follow the commandments? (Eze. 37:24)
[Better yet: Why did he not immediately do so by means of mass revelation, not unlike at Mt. Sinai?]
Why did he not immediately inspire or wipe out all weapons of war? (Mic. 4:3, Isa. 2:4, and Eze. 39:9)
Why did he not immediately inspire the various foreign inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Persia, Greece, Rome, and elsewhere to recognize the wrongs they did to Israel? (Isa. 52 and 53)
Why did he not immediately cause knowledge of God to fill the world? (Isa. 11:9)
Why did he not immediately inspire the world to serve God? (Isa. 66:23)
Why did he not immediately establish permanent world peace? (Mic. 4:3 and Isa. 2:4)
Why did he not immediately replace the existing temple with a larger eschatological temple? (Eze. 37:26-27 and ch. 40-48)

Was doing the Christian Devil, chief priests, scribes, and elders one better (Matt. 4:6 and 27:41-42), bringing forward the Second Coming and strengthening the case of personal salvation, too much to ask?

[Answers like "in the Lord's time" won't do.]

There's nothing in your 'Religion' on your profile.

Why did he not immediately cause knowledge of God to fill the world? (Isa. 11:9)

What is the knowledge of God in your opinion? What specific knowledge should the world know? "The knowledge of God" is what, exactly?

Why did he not immediately inspire the world to serve God? (Isa. 66:23)

What do you think it means to serve God? How does one serve God? Its your quote, so tell us what serving God is.

Why did he not immediately reestablish the state of Israel, and succeed where Bar Kokhba failed? (Isa. 24:23)

Are you sure that establishing the state of Israel is what this quoted passage is about? How do you know what it means? You are quoting it, so you should be able to tell us.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

The following questions are not about the questionable historicity of the resurrected Christ (as opposed to the historical Jesus).

So what if there's a resurrected Christ? Still not the Messiah?

Why did he not immediately reestablish the state of Israel, and succeed where Bar Kokhba failed? (Isa. 24:23)
Why did he not immediately return the Ten Lost Tribes and the diaspora of Judah to Israel? (Isa. 11:12)
Why did he not immediately inspire "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" to follow the commandments? (Eze. 37:24)
[Better yet: Why did he not immediately do so by means of mass revelation, not unlike at Mt. Sinai?]
Why did he not immediately inspire or wipe out all weapons of war? (Mic. 4:3, Isa. 2:4, and Eze. 39:9)
Why did he not immediately inspire the various foreign inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Persia, Greece, Rome, and elsewhere to recognize the wrongs they did to Israel? (Isa. 52 and 53)
Why did he not immediately cause knowledge of God to fill the world? (Isa. 11:9)
Why did he not immediately inspire the world to serve God? (Isa. 66:23)
Why did he not immediately establish permanent world peace? (Mic. 4:3 and Isa. 2:4)
Why did he not immediately replace the existing temple with a larger eschatological temple? (Eze. 37:26-27 and ch. 40-48)

Was doing the Christian Devil, chief priests, scribes, and elders one better (Matt. 4:6 and 27:41-42), bringing forward the Second Coming and strengthening the case of personal salvation, too much to ask?

[Answers like "in the Lord's time" won't do.]

The answer to all of these questions is the same one.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

All of these expectations are Jewish. And human. And frankly, materialistic.

The Jew wants to see the Temple complete in all of its glory. To see their ideal of a chosen people fulfilled. But hear what Jesus himself said. "Destroy this temple, and I will rebuild it in three days."

God did not come to resolve our border disputes. God came to rend the barrier of the Temple, so that all can see him. God came to give us a direct encounter with him, as it was in the time and Adam and Eve, where they spoke directly. To break down our belief in death, and show it as a lie.

Jews didn't get the memo. They're crying at a wall.

Muslims didn't get the memo either.

I have a cat, who was let out in the rain and cold while our visiting dog rested on the couch. I let her in. Just for a bite to eat. Jerkass dog couldn't sit and stay and just let her eat in peace, had to chase her around the house, when actually he was the guest.

This is Temple Mount. Since it is important to the Jews, it would not be unreasonable to allow the Jews to share the mountain, especially since just casually looking at this area, much of it is either trees or pavement not actual temple. Especially since Israel is the only land actually possessed by the Jews, while the Muslims have countries to spare.

2nd Samuel 12.

(Taking someone's one Lamb, when you already have many)

 

[Trailblazer]

The following questions are not about the questionable historicity of the resurrected Christ (as opposed to the historical Jesus).

So what if there's a resurrected Christ? Still not the Messiah?

Why did he not immediately reestablish the state of Israel, and succeed where Bar Kokhba failed? (Isa. 24:23)
Why did he not immediately return the Ten Lost Tribes and the diaspora of Judah to Israel? (Isa. 11:12)
Why did he not immediately inspire "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" to follow the commandments? (Eze. 37:24)
[Better yet: Why did he not immediately do so by means of mass revelation, not unlike at Mt. Sinai?]
Why did he not immediately inspire or wipe out all weapons of war? (Mic. 4:3, Isa. 2:4, and Eze. 39:9)
Why did he not immediately inspire the various foreign inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Persia, Greece, Rome, and elsewhere to recognize the wrongs they did to Israel? (Isa. 52 and 53)
Why did he not immediately cause knowledge of God to fill the world? (Isa. 11:9)
Why did he not immediately inspire the world to serve God? (Isa. 66:23)
Why did he not immediately establish permanent world peace? (Mic. 4:3 and Isa. 2:4)
Why did he not immediately replace the existing temple with a larger eschatological temple? (Eze. 37:26-27 and ch. 40-48)

Was doing the Christian Devil, chief priests, scribes, and elders one better (Matt. 4:6 and 27:41-42), bringing forward the Second Coming and strengthening the case of personal salvation, too much to ask?

[Answers like "in the Lord's time" won't do.]

The answer that most Christians will give is that Jesus will do those things when He returns. Problem is, Jesus said His work was done here. Jesus never promised to return.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

All of these expectations are Jewish. And human. And frankly, materialistic.

The Jew wants to see the Temple complete in all of its glory. To see their ideal of a chosen people fulfilled. But hear what Jesus himself said. "Destroy this temple, and I will rebuild it in three days."

God did not come to resolve our border disputes. God came to rend the barrier of the Temple, so that all can see him. God came to give us a direct encounter with him, as it was in the time and Adam and Eve, where they spoke directly. To break down our belief in death, and show it as a lie.

Jews didn't get the memo. They're crying at a wall.

Muslims didn't get the memo either.

All can see the promised Temple, it was Baha'u'llah.

"..Thus have We built the Temple with the hands of power and might, could ye but know it. This is the Temple promised unto you in the Book. Draw ye nigh unto it. This is that which profiteth you, could ye but comprehend it. Be fair, O peoples of the earth! Which is preferable, this, or a temple which is built of clay? Set your faces towards it. Thus have ye been commanded by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Follow ye His bidding, and praise ye God, your Lord, for that which He hath bestowed upon you. He, verily, is the Truth. No God is there but He. He revealeth what He pleaseth, through His words "Be and it is".

This is one of the most challenging works of Baha'u'llah - Súriy-i-Haykal

"This is the Súrih of the Temple which God hath ordained to be the Mirror of His Names between the heavens and the earth, and the Sign of His Remembrance amidst the peoples of the world. He is the Most Wondrous, the All-Glorious!"

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 3-54

Regards Tony

 

[shunyadragon]

Do you believe that his teachings were accurate?

Like all ancient religions, yes and no, Ancient religions are cloaked in the culture over the millennia, lack original scripture, and have been subject to highly variable interpretation of the many divisions over time. Considering history and these issues It is problematic to claim that Buddhism is in any way the only religion to follow. Before I became a Baha'i I was non-temple disciple to the teachings as well as teachings of other religions.

Yes, like Buddhism, all religions contain spiritual guidance and teachings that endure through history for the spiritual guidance of humanity.

 

[Muffled]

I believe it is because God is patient and willing to give the whole world time to receive Him as Lord and Savior.

 

[Muffled]

He did none of these things because he was not the moshiach.

I believe that is not logical.

 

[Muffled]

Judaism would beg to differ kind dear.....

I believe Judaism has become totally irrational on this subject.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe it is because God is patient and willing to give the whole world time to receive Him as Lord and Savior.

That is not going to happen, EVER. People are leaving Christianity in droves in the most educated nations in the world. The only reason Christianity has any growth at all is because Christians still try to convert in other parts of the world, but people who are educated will no longer believe in the superstitious doctrines of the Church.

It is too bad Jesus got all mixed up in this, because none of this was His fault, since He was dead by the time the Church misconstrued what he said and made up the doctrines.... It is a mess that is now impossible to clean up... Like I said on another forum yesterday, Christianity is like a car that is toast and needs a complete overhaul... Baha’u’llah came to do that overhaul and there is no way Christians can stop what God has already set in motion...

The growth rates from 1910-2010 are as follows: Judaism .11%, Christianity 1.32%, Islam 1.97%, Baha’i 3.54%.
Growth of religion - Wikipedia

Hopefully, you can do the math.