Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?

[omega2xx]

Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?

Perhaps its both and maybe neither?

What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?

Biblical allegories are based on literal facts, so it doesn't matter.



“All satanic works are performed from the outside inward; all divine works from the inside outward.”
― Watchman Nee

 

[omega2xx]

How about complete myth?

How about some evidence.

“All satanic works are performed from the outside inward; all divine works from the inside outward.”
― Watchman Nee

 

[Cephus]

How about some evidence.

“All satanic works are performed from the outside inward; all divine works from the inside outward.”
― Watchman Nee

That assumes, again without any evidence, that the satanic or divine actually exist. Try again.

 

[omega2xx]

That assumes, again without any evidence, that the satanic or divine actually exist. Try again.

That;s right and it is you assumption that he does not. I will try again when you show Satan does
not exist.

 

[Cephus]

That;s right and it is you assumption that he does not. I will try again when you show Satan does
not exist.

I don't have to assume anything, I go by evidence and there has been no objective or demonstrable evidence presented for either of those things. I have no better reason to think Satan exists than I do to think unicorns exist. It's all just made up nonsense, which you believe because it makes you feel good to do so, not because you have any credible reason to think it actually does.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?

Perhaps its both and maybe neither?

What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?

Christianity is null and void without a literal resurrection, the Bible stance on the issue.

There is too much evidence for Jesus's resurrection to reject it as fact.

 

[james bond]

Because religious fundamentalism whether Christian or Islamic, is arguably the greatest barrier to achieving peace in the world.



I'm a Baha'i



As your Christian creationist scientists would hold little appeal for me, the scholars I read will have little appeal for you.

I am wondering if having a discussion about the pros and cons of our respective positions about Christ's resurrection will for the best. I suspect it will be an exercise in frustration and futility for both of us.

Maybe a better starting point would be for us to share with each other how we came to our respective faiths. If there's some connection through this simple exercise then we may have a platform to be able to talk further.



Thanks for admitting that. I really think you need to ask yourself why you said what you did. It was extreme IMHO? I am not 'brainwashed'. I simply have a different perspective about the God, Jesus, and Bible we both believe in.

First, I'm not an extremist but middle-of-the-road. Right now, I'm slightly to the right of center, or a RINO, based on -- VoteMatch Quiz .

I'm thinking you're the kind of person who tries to put a round peg in a square hole, pounds it in with a mallet and then say, "It fits!" Anyway, it's okay if you want to back down. Normally, I try to find common ground with people whom I do not know, but to each his own. You know, the peace thing, I am for world peace but it has not been achieved as every POTUS, whether I voted for them or not, has led us into war. Just look at antiwar.com . I don't think religion is the main culprit, but politics.

Good day.

 

[Shlomoh]

There are already all kinds of opinions regarding this question on here so all I can give is my own personal opinion. I do not believe that YESHUA the Nazarene was the messiah and there are far too many reasons to go into for me to argue about. That being said, I believe that his disciples believed that he was somehow super-human. He obviously was charismatic and inspired, within a very short time of his death, narratives about his life and deeds that are more stories of religious salvation than of actual Jewish history. The stories of his resurrection are not clear cut. Paul, who probably never met him, says that YESHUA rose from the dead and thereby affected human salvation from death and hell. The evangelists have two stories about a witnessing of his resurrection, one by Mary Magdelene and one by Peter. His personality must have been overwhelmingly powerful and his promises of an approaching messianic era in which death would be abolished so dramatic that, after his execution as a criminal by Romans, as far as his followers were concerned, he DID arise from death. Jewish people were eager to believe that the messiah had actually, at last come to save them from the Romans that they believed the story and it grew until it became a dogma of Christianity wherein it is actually no longer YESHUA but Jesus Christ as God who resurrected. There are many stories involving the death and resurrection of gods, and this is the one that caught on and was adopted by our culture.

 

[omega2xx]

I don't have to assume anything, I go by evidence and there has been no objective or demonstrable evidence presented for either of those things.

Jesus mention devils and Satan. Unless you have evidence Jesus is lying, you can't assume they do not exist.

I have no better reason to think Satan exists than I do to think unicorns exist.

It is amusing how often this silly analogy is used. There is historical evidence Jesus existed. We have no such evidence that unicorns do.

It's all just made up nonsense, which you believe because it makes you feel good to do so, not because you have any credible reason to think it actually does.

It is not nonsense to those who understand it. Something you can't do.

 

[Dave Smith]

Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?

Perhaps its both and maybe neither?

What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?

If you don't believe in the death and resurrection of Christ as a true and necessary fulfilment of God's purposes and fulfilling the requirements Law in order that you may return to God's presence in perfection just by faith in Jesus without sin or concern for sin fully entitled as His child to all the goodness of God and abundance of heaven and equipped and authorised to bring heaven on earth in Jesus' name then debating that point in term of its validity or probability is mute and redundant. By faith, like a child, just because daddy said so and you believe it - everything else is just exploring doubt and tho God made a mansion with many rooms He did not make room for doubt.

 

[Kenny]

I don't have to assume anything, I go by evidence and there has been no objective or demonstrable evidence presented for either of those things. I have no better reason to think Satan exists than I do to think unicorns exist. It's all just made up nonsense, which you believe because it makes you feel good to do so, not because you have any credible reason to think it actually does.

First of all, there is a possibility that unicorns existed:

Giant 'Siberian unicorn' existed much more recently than previously thought, experts say

As far as evidence... it would depend on who is interpreting what is seen. Someone who doesn't want to believe will simply call it "gullible people". Those who have experienced it may see it as real.

Clarita Villanueva, from the Philippines, was pretty much well documented. How you view it would be up to you.

Although there are books about it... I just found this site which describes it pretty good.Exorcism in Manila : Mayor Arsenio Lacson, Lester Sumrall and The Manila Bethel Temple | el Talonggo

 

[Kenny]

Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?

Perhaps its both and maybe neither?

What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?

I believe he did. Why allegorical?

 

[Robert Landbeck]

Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?

Perhaps its both and maybe neither?

What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?

While the Resurrection is a core belief, I'm not sure it has yet to be understood fully as yet. My own heretical spin is that the event was real, demonstrating God's willingness to intervene directly into the natural world in accordance with his will, but there must therefore be a 'spiritual' resurrection that applies to the faithful. That would offer the one thing tradition is unable to offer. An absolute proof for faith. And that is what I will call true religion!

 

[Cephus]

First of all, there is a possibility that unicorns existed:

Giant 'Siberian unicorn' existed much more recently than previously thought, experts say

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016...ntly-than-previously-thought-experts-say.html

A rhinoceros is not a unicorn, sorry.

As far as evidence... it would depend on who is interpreting what is seen. Someone who doesn't want to believe will simply call it "gullible people". Those who have experienced it may see it as real.

Um... no. Because cherry picking empty, unsupported claims because it confirms what you already believe is not following the evidence. That's why we continually ask for objective evidence. That's something that you don't have to hold any particular belief to see. Funny how theists have none of that.

Clarita Villanueva, from the Philippines, was pretty much well documented. How you view it would be up to you.

Um... no. There is no way to know what happened to Clarita as whatever caused it was unseen and unknown. You can't just arbitrarily assign a cause to something that has no demonstrated cause. That's not how logic works.

Although there are books about it... I just found this site which describes it pretty good.Exorcism in Manila : Mayor Arsenio Lacson, Lester Sumrall and The Manila Bethel Temple | el Talonggo

But again, it's just a bunch of arbitrarily assigned causes for things where the causes are unknown. Let us know when you can actually prove that any of the assigned causes actually existed in the real world.

 

[Cephus]

Jesus mention devils and Satan. Unless you have evidence Jesus is lying, you can't assume they do not exist.

You don't even have evidence that Jesus actually existed, much less mentioned anything. Jesus never wrote anything down, it's all heresay, written by non-eyewitnesses. Try again.

It is amusing how often this silly analogy is used. There is historical evidence Jesus existed. We have no such evidence that unicorns do.

Nope, there is not. There are written claims that he existed, no actual, objective, demonstrable evidence that he did.

It is not nonsense to those who understand it. Something you can't do.

You don't understand it, you believe it. You have faith in it. Blind faith and actual understanding are not the same thing.

 

[Daisies4me]

Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?

Perhaps its both and maybe neither?

What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?

-------------
I believe that God resurrected Jesus from the death state. He gave life to Jesus again, but that life was not in a human body, not the body that was given as a ransom for the release from the Adamic sin of Adam. Jesus was raised up from the dead as a spirit creature, as he had been prior to being sent to earth by His God and FAther to provide the sacrifice for sin that would release mankind and give them a chance to live again via the resurrection 'in the last day'. Jesus materialized in human bodies after being resurrected by God, to appear to his disciples to prove to them that God had resurrected him, and they watched as he ascended into the earthly heavens, where a cloud then obscured him from their vision as he then entered into the realm of God to sit at the right hand of God until the appointed time for cleansing the nations and abyssing the one having the means to cause death, Satan the devil and his demons, and then the resurrection of all in the memorial tombs to have a chance to prove their loyalty to God without Satan's influence, and without inherited sin. John 5:28-29, Proverbs 2:21-22; Psalm 37:29; Matthew 5:5; Acts 2:22-24; Hebrews 10:12; Acts 2:32-33. Just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Kenny]

A rhinoceros is not a unicorn, sorry.

Just reporting... you call it a rhino, but back then they may have called it a unicorn. They did call it that in the report. Maybe they're family.

Um... no. Because cherry picking empty, unsupported claims because it confirms what you already believe is not following the evidence. That's why we continually ask for objective evidence. That's something that you don't have to hold any particular belief to see. Funny how theists have none of that.

Um... no. Your position of "objective evidence" is translated into "if it doesn't match my beliefs, it isn't objective". Case in point is right below.

Um... no. There is no way to know what happened to Clarita as whatever caused it was unseen and unknown. You can't just arbitrarily assign a cause to something that has no demonstrated cause. That's not how logic works.

See your bias? Doctor was there -- objective. Newspapers were there -- objective. Teethmarks were there -- objective.

Your position... illogical. Incidentally, objectively speaking, after Sumrall cast out the demon, no more marks and in her right mind. Objective.

But again, it's just a bunch of arbitrarily assigned causes for things where the causes are unknown. Let us know when you can actually prove that any of the assigned causes actually existed in the real world.

So... we have proof but your viewpoint is different than others. That happens often in the scientific world, each seeing the same thing and coming up with different positions of thought.

 

[Cephus]

Just reporting... you call it a rhino, but back then they may have called it a unicorn. They did call it that in the report. Maybe they're family.

We're not talking about what someone mistakenly called something, I was specifically referring to a horse with a horn that has magical powers. That news story wasn't talking about that.

Um... no. Your position of "objective evidence" is translated into "if it doesn't match my beliefs, it isn't objective". Case in point is right below.

Nope, not the case.

See your bias? Doctor was there -- objective. Newspapers were there -- objective. Teethmarks were there -- objective.

None of which proves what caused it. Try again.

Your position... illogical. Incidentally, objectively speaking, after Sumrall cast out the demon, no more marks and in her right mind. Objective.

Still doesn't prove what caused it. Learn the difference between correlation and causation.

So... we have proof but your viewpoint is different than others. That happens often in the scientific world, each seeing the same thing and coming up with different positions of thought.

No, we don't have proof. You still have no direct evidence of what caused it, you simply assert a cause because it fits with your particular belief system. When you actually have evidence that demons exist, let us all know. I suspect it will be a long, long, long wait.

 

[Daisies4me]

Are you aware that many early Christians did not believe in a physical resurrection at all?

Another aspect is that the Christian world view included a physical hell below the earth and heaven up in the sky. The earth was the centre of the universe. That creates problems if we still have this belief because we know a lot more about what's up there in space now than we used to.

If we see heaven and hell as being in the invisible spiritual realm then it creates difficulties with Jesus literally rising into heaven if that means the sky.

------------
the planet earth is not the entire universe (actually, there are many other universes out there) but what took place happened on the earth simply because the earth is where the original sin and rebellion against the Creator and His instructions for living on His earth were given. So logically, it would be on earth where the issue is worked out and will come to fruition and the issue of Universal Sovereignty settled once for all time. ON This earth. So the 'sky' being a part of earth, is NOT the 'heavens' where God's Theocracy stems from. It is from the heavenly realm of God from which the fallen angels left their positions and came to earth in order to materialize in human bodies in order to engage in sexual acts with the human women. Those demons are still alive even today, as they simple dematerialized their human bodies and went back up into the heavens to escape the destruction of the earth in the flood. They are confined now, to 'the vicinity of the earth' since the 'war broke out in heaven' , when Jesus and His angelic forces threw them out of heaven at God's appointed time, and they are aware of the time of their own demise soon, when they will all be abyssed in the death condition at the Holy War of God the Almighty. (Rev, 16:14, 16) at that time, Proverbs 2:21-22 will be fulfilled. as will Daniel 2:44. Happy will those ones be who have long awaited the fulfillment of Psalm 37:9-11, 29; and Matthew 5:5.

 

[psychoslice]

I care. Religious fundamentalism a great barrier to achieving peace in the world.

Yes that's up to you, I myself don't need to believe anything literal in the scriptures, it in fact literalism only gets in the way of what truly is behind the mere words.