Revelation

[blü 2]

I believe the book of revelation is nothing more than a mere collection of events that would’ve taken place providing God allows us that time to exist. In my view the world will end before any of that happens and it will come like a thief in the night. No one will see it coming. It’s a good revelation. A revelation of hope.

in my view the book of Revelation is a self-indulgent self-important application of a recognized kind of Greek polemic.

Either that, or it's written for fun and effect, though still that recognized kind of Greek polemic.

I should however mention a third possibility, of course, touching on the mental health of the author.

 

[Jimmy]

in my view the book of Revelation is a self-indulgent self-important application of a recognized kind of Greek polemic.

Either that, or it's written for fun and effect, though still that recognized kind of Greek polemic.

I should however mention a third possibility, of course, touching on the mental health of the author.

Well, one could question the mental health of someone who believes in an afterlife. I guess you’ll have that when it comes to spiritual books.

 

[cataway]

I'm asking this question out of curiosity and to help understand how people, like yourself put so much credence in a book written 2000 years a go by a bunch of blokes in a 'far off land'. When you consider there have been hundreds of texts written with similar ideals, why is this book, placed on such a pedestal?

And do you think there is a very strong chance the book was written for other reasons apart from someone called Jesus.

Just interested in the mindset of a 'believer' thanks

its really very simple ..... I understand it.
you do not understand it ,its all gibberish to you. that's the way it's supposed to be. some of it has already happen ,some of it is yet to happen . it will happen!

 

[blü 2]

Well, one could question the mental health of someone who believes in an afterlife. I guess you’ll have that when it comes to spiritual books.

You don't think it would be fun to write Revelation? To thunder away from the pulpit of the page with the End of the World, Retribution for Sinners, God's power to hate and punish people you don't like, all those threats and curses?

And all in an approved style of Greek literary art?

Where's your sense of perspective, not to say humor?

 

[Jimmy]

You don't think it would be fun to write Revelation? To thunder away from the pulpit of the page with the End of the World, Retribution for Sinners, God's power to hate and punish people you don't like, all those threats and curses?

And all in an approved style of Greek literary art?

Where's your sense of perspective, not to say humor?

Fun for arts sake? Sure

 

[cataway]

You don't think it would be fun to write Revelation? To thunder away from the pulpit of the page with the End of the World, Retribution for Sinners, God's power to hate and punish people you don't like, all those threats and curses?

And all in an approved style of Greek literary art?

Where's your sense of perspective, not to say humor?

'' End of the World'' ?? who said there is going to be and End of the World ? maybe your world ,not mine

 

[blü 2]

'' End of the World'' ?? who said there is going to be and End of the World ? maybe your world ,not mine

What do you think Revelation is about? It claims to present a vision of "a new Heaven and a new Earth", for example.

What happens to the old Earth?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe the book of revelation is nothing more than a mere collection of events that would’ve taken place providing God allows us that time to exist. In my view the world will end before any of that happens and it will come like a thief in the night. No one will see it coming. It’s a good revelation. A revelation of hope.

That's a very interesting view.

I am no expert on Revelation, but I know enough to understand there are four very different ways to interpret it:

1. Preterism: the understanding that the book of Revelation is simply about the Jewish-Roman war that destroyed the Temple.
2. Historicism: the understanding that each of the scrolls, trumpets, etc. refer to different ages in Church history.
3. Futurism: the idea that Revelation is about end times.
4. Idealism: the idea that the symbols and difficulties of the Revelation story can be applied at any time by any Christian or church that is having that same problem.

Preterism is the the only one of the above that makes any sense to me. You find Preterists scattered among many different denominations.
Historicism, until relatively recently, was by far the most common view of Protestant churches.
Futurism is associated with Darby back in the 1800s who made this view popular. It became part of the mainstream some time around the 1970s as the Jesus People movement adopted this view (think Hal Lindsey and Calvary Chapel).

Today, I commonly come across evangelicals who are not even aware there are four different takes. They just assume that "everyone knows" it's about end times.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What do you think Revelation is about? It claims to present a vision of "a new Heaven and a new Earth", for example.

What happens to the old Earth?

See post 28.

 

[cataway]

What do you think Revelation is about? It claims to present a vision of "a new Heaven and a new Earth", for example.

What happens to the old Earth?

i will refer you to https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/bible-verses/revelation-21-1/

 

[GoodAttention]

ah but you do admit hyperbole's were used by Jesus

But never rhetorically. This isn't a SNL skit my friend.

Reveleation 21:1 "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."

 

[cataway]

But never rhetorically. This isn't a SNL skit my friend.

Reveleation 21:1 "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."

are you also denying that jesus used hyperbole's ?

 

[GoodAttention]

are you also denying that jesus used hyperbole's ?

Aren't you the one who failed to provide adequate examples of hyperbole?

 

[cataway]

Aren't you the one who failed to provide adequate examples of hyperbole?

LOL you read posts like you read the Bible ,you do it wrong

 

[GoodAttention]

I'm happy I live in a world where children can survive leukemia and get to celebrate their next birthday, as wrong as that is.

 

[alf]

Revelation is a simple spiritual story that describes humanity's path from the position of a society and system in which a time-calendar is used to a society and system in which there is no time-calendar.
It is said in symbolism as a place where there is no sun and moon.
The basic symbols set to determine a calendar.
That is the main message.

It is a warning to exit the calendar, because it will crash.

A city or a harlot is the calendar, the man is that beast with 7 heads, the woman is the beast with two horns, her breasts that sting every man.
The first comes out of the sea, because it grows in salt water - womb, and the woman is from the man - earth.
Just as in creation.

A very simple story, just like Samson breaking down the two pillars - the sun and the moon.
And people are in the time-calendar.

Get out now!

 

[cataway]

Revelation is a simple spiritual story that describes humanity's path from the position of a society and system in which a time-calendar is used to a society and system in which there is no time-calendar.
It is said in symbolism as a place where there is no sun and moon.
The basic symbols set to determine a calendar.
That is the main message.

It is a warning to exit the calendar, because it will crash.

A city or a harlot is the calendar, the man is that beast with 7 heads, the woman is the beast with two horns, her breasts that sting every man.
The first comes out of the sea, because it grows in salt water - womb, and the woman is from the man - earth.
Just as in creation.

A very simple story, just like Samson breaking down the two pillars - the sun and the moon.
And people are in the time-calendar.

Get out now!

i'm going to let you go back to the drawing board . not even close. not that I am surprised

 

[Trailblazer]

What do you think Revelation is about? It claims to present a vision of "a new Heaven and a new Earth", for example.

What happens to the old Earth?

If I may intercede, Baha'is and Christians believe differently about the new Earth and how it will be established.

Baha'is believe that the new Earth will be established in the present age, which began with the return of Christ in the mid 19th century.
After the return of Christ the process of building the New Earth was set in motion..

The new Earth does not refer to a new physical earth, it refers to a new Earth of people who will be more spiritual.
The new Earth it will be established by people working together to build it with the assistance of God.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”
(Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6- 7)

Baha'is believe that the new Earth is a new world order in which we will see the spiritualization of the peoples of the world and man will become a noble being adorned with divine virtues and perfections.

You asked what will happen to the old Earth. The old physical Earth will still remain as always but the old systems will be replaced by new systems.
Baha'is refer to that as the New world order.

The “World Order” that Baha’is envision pertains to a number of subjects: politics and governance, economics, society, and religion, as is covered briefly in this blog:

Toward a New World Order? | Baha'i Blog

If you have spent a considerable amount of time reading the Writings of the Baha'i Faith, it is likely that you have come across language regarding the relationship between the Faith and a new “World Order.” One of the passages that is most frequently quoted in relation to this theme is this...

www.bahaiblog.net

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

If I may intercede, Baha'is and Christians believe differently about the new Earth and how it will be established.

Indeed, it is being established now.
This epoch is unique among all times in human history. Unique in numerous and meaningful ways.
In contrast with Christianism, we Baha'is don't believe in a supernatural, overnight change, but in a process that is taking place and accelerating.
This process is initiated and led by God by executed by human hands, as all processes in civilization.
The Bible didn't come floating down from the sky. Same with arts, science, and social change. Their origin is divine, but executed by his children.

 

[blü 2]

If I may intercede, Baha'is and Christians believe differently about the new Earth and how it will be established.

Baha'is believe that the new Earth will be established in the present age, which began with the return of Christ in the mid 19th century.
After the return of Christ the process of building the New Earth was set in motion..

The new Earth does not refer to a new physical earth, it refers to a new Earth of people who will be more spiritual.
The new Earth it will be established by people working together to build it with the assistance of God.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”
(Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6- 7)

Baha'is believe that the new Earth is a new world order in which we will see the spiritualization of the peoples of the world and man will become a noble being adorned with divine virtues and perfections.

You asked what will happen to the old Earth. The old physical Earth will still remain as always but the old systems will be replaced by new systems.
Baha'is refer to that as the New world order.

The “World Order” that Baha’is envision pertains to a number of subjects: politics and governance, economics, society, and religion, as is covered briefly in this blog:

Toward a New World Order? | Baha'i Blog

If you have spent a considerable amount of time reading the Writings of the Baha'i Faith, it is likely that you have come across language regarding the relationship between the Faith and a new “World Order.” One of the passages that is most frequently quoted in relation to this theme is this...

www.bahaiblog.net

I'm reminded of FitzGerald's Omar's verse ─

Ah Love! could thou and I with Fate conspire
To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire,

Would not we shatter it to bits – and then​

Re-mould it nearer to the Heart’s Desire!​