Revisiting Anslem

[Ostronomos]

1. Anything is possible.
2. Mind can create anything.
3. Therefore, existence is created by mind. ?

For if anything is possible without intelligence, chaos and randomness must then ensue, which is not the case with design, so intelligence does not merely achieve a pattern within chaos, it creates it. The mind rather than the intelligence is the brain, the operation of free will, determinism and self-determination all combined. If intelligence is the effect of this combination and not the cause, then mind is both a qualitative and quantitative dimension existing as a separate quality from the object world while being greater than the quantitative aspect of the brain.

 

[ChristineM]

1. Anything is possible.
2. Mind can create anything.
3. Therefore, existence is created by mind. ?

Doesn't follow, the universe existed, our galaxy existed, our solar system existed, our planet existed for billions of years before mind evolved.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Let's hope it's a brief visit.

 

[Isabella Lecour]

What is the meaning of Anslem? Or do you mean Anselm of Canterbury?

 

[Ostronomos]

Doesn't follow, the universe existed, our galaxy existed, our solar system existed, our planet existed for billions of years before mind evolved.

Just because you do not comprehend the superior logic of the above statements does not mean it doesn't follow.

1.] Mind is not an illusion. If it were materialistic, then it would lead to the Cartesian mind-matter split. This materialistic view is false as it is based on the fallacious argument that matter can create mind.

2.] If matter can create mind as you say, then it would be an even stronger argument for a Quantum mind. Since it would imply that the particles that create the mind can become entangled with the environment, leading to all manner of supernatural phenomenon.

3.] God is real because He is proven using logic.

 

[ChristineM]

Just because you do not comprehend the superior logic of the above statements does not mean it doesn't follow.

1.] Mind is not an illusion. If it were materialistic, then it would lead to the Cartesian mind-matter split. This materialistic view is false as it is based on the fallacious argument that matter can create mind.

2.] If matter can create mind as you say, then it would be an even stronger argument for a Quantum mindthe environment, leading to all manner of supernatural phenomenon.

3.] God is real because He is proven using logic.

Superior what? Sorry, you have it totally arse about face.

God is believed, he certainly is t proven, if anyone could ever prove gods existence they would be the most famous person on the planet with religious leaders, presidents abd royalty on their speed dil list

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

1. Anything is possible.
2. Mind can create anything.
3. Therefore, existence is created by mind. ?

1 and 2 assume facts not in evidence.

3 doesn't follow from 1 and 2.

If 1 is true, then it's impossible to establish 2 or 3 (since if anything is possible, then it's possible for 2 and 3 to be false).

 

[Ostronomos]

Superior what? Sorry, you have it totally arse about face.

God is believed, he certainly is t proven, if anyone could ever prove gods existence they would be the most famous person on the planet with religious leaders, presidents abd royalty on their speed dil list

Not true. You assume the proof can immediately be recognized.

Both I and Langan published our proofs and we do not live a lavish lifestyle by comparison.

 

[ChristineM]

Not true. You assume the proof can immediately be recognized.

Both I and Langan published our proofs and we do not live a lavish lifestyle by comparison.

True, you made the claim but unfortunately you didn't consider it completely, if anything is possible then it is possible to be false.

Please provide a link to your published proof, this i gotta see

 

[Ostronomos]

True, you made the claim but unfortunately you didn't consider it completely, if anything is possible then it is possible to be false.

Please provide a link to your published proof, this i gotta see

I have publicly announced my proof in the Philosophy subforum. You may not understand it at first, but don't be discouraged.

 

[ChristineM]

I have publicly announced my proof in the Philosophy subforum. You may not understand it at first, but don't be discouraged.

That, my dear, is opinion, not proof

 

[firedragon]

1. Anything is possible.
2. Mind can create anything.
3. Therefore, existence is created by mind. ?

Anselm? Hmm. Which book?

Anyway, this argument with all due respect my friend is not sound. It's just composed in a formal fashion. It makes some significant assumptions. For example, it presupposes that the mind has the ability to bring about existence in its entirety, which is a claim that would require substantial evidence to support. Mind being able to create anything as a statement does not prove the mind can create physical reality. It can only prove that the mind can create mental pictures or a reality inside the mind. So the argument does not follow. It's unsound. The leap to P3 is completely out of the question.

 

[blü 2]

Just because you do not comprehend the superior logic of the above statements does not mean it doesn't follow.

1.] Mind is not an illusion. If it were materialistic, then it would lead to the Cartesian mind-matter split.

Other way round. If mind is not produced by the (purely material) functions of the brain THEN you need to imagine a total category distinction between human thought &c and the brain without which there is no human thought,. As it stands, clearly thought / mind/ sensory input processing / reasoning / language / instinct / are the result of the genetics, biochemistry and bioelectricity of the brain.

2.] If matter can create mind as you say, then it would be an even stronger argument for a Quantum mind.

The role of quantum physics (postulated hypothetically by Penrose and another in The Emperor's New Mind, as I seem to recall) has not been demonstrated conclusively as far as I'm aware. Some years ago it was claimed that some function of a particular bird species to do with the eye involved quantum effects, but that seems to have gone away. I don't rule it out, of course, but if it were correct it would simply further affirm the materiality of the brain.

Since it would imply that the particles that create the mind can become entangled with the environment, leading to all manner of supernatural phenomenon.

How does that work, exactly?

Please start by explaining how quantum entanglement would lead to results not within the realm of physics ie of nature, hence might be called supernatural

3.] God is real because He is proven using logic.

There is no satisfactory definition of a real god as far as I'm aware, such that if we found a real suspect we could determine whether it was God or not. Gods, at least in the West, are defined in imaginary terms like omnipotent, omniscient, infinite, eternal, perfect &c &c.

There isn't even any useful definition of "godness", the quality a real god would have and a real superscientist who could create universes, raise the dead, and so on, would lack.

If that's wrong, grateful you supply me with the relevant definitions and how they're derived.