Rich and the Poor

[Sunstone]

My guess is there must be at least 20 reasons for the stereotypes you mention in the OP, @Quetzal. Only two or three deeply interest me, though, and the first of those has to do with the psychology of being poor while trying to get ahead.

Years ago, when I knew scores of homeless people -- perhaps nearly a hundred in all -- I was surprised that nearly every last one of them was a fan of Rush Limbaugh and a conservative Republican. Although none of them voted, they almost all would have voted straight Republican ticket had they voted. That made me quite curious about what was going on with them! After all, I had expected them to all be liberals.

As near as I could figure out from talking with people, it goes something like this: Thinking of the world in conservative terms gave them a sense of empowerment, made them feel less like helpless victims, and boosted their morale.

Specifically, believing that "poor people are poor because they are lazy" made it so much easier to for them to believe that they could determine by themselves their own futures, that their lives were in their own hands, and that they were not dependent on other people who might or might not come to their aide.

Basically, they were embracing the stereotype that the poor deserve to be poor in order to avoid feeling helpless.powerless, insignificant.

 

[Revoltingest]

How would you determine how much assistance they would get? Would rent be covered as a whole?

Details?
You want details!
I'm not prepared to go there.

 

[Quetzal]

It will vary from place to place, depending on many things,
eg, renting vs owning, shape of the space, number of
occupants, relationships of the occupants, age of the
occupants, zoning.
In my town, I ran into the problem of maximum occupancy
being based upon age & family relationship. These laws
conflicted with Fair Housing laws, which banned discrimination
based upon age & family relationship. One never knew
if government might come down like a ton of bricks cuz
there were some rental situations where no matter what
one did, it was illegal under some law.

What is the min. square spacing in your area?

 

[Nakosis]

I think its where a lot of folks put their value, either consciously or subconsciously. People with money must have had a culturally desirable upbringing, and engaged their time in culturally appropriate activities. The poor, not so much.

I think it goes deeper than politics. Once heavily involved in a Liberal group, they were all for making laws that support the poor... just don't ask them(the Liberals) to sit with them(the poor) at lunch. They had that same attitude engrained in their head that the conservatives often do, and most of them weren't even conscious of it.

Seems it is less about politics and more about psychology.
Despising the poor | The Psychologist

It gets presented as a political issue only because both parties try to use this against the other party.

 

[Sunstone]

I believe John Steinbeck nailed one of the reasons people believe the stereotypes about the rick and the poor when he pointed out that most Americans on some level, to one degree or another, imagine themselves to be (as he put it) "temporarily embarrassed millionaires." That is, they buy into the mythology so notably popularized by Horatio Alger that in America, anyone can get ahead so long as they have sufficient pluck, dedication to hard work, and courage, and that they themselves have those 'necessary traits'. Hence, they see themselves not as poor, or even as middle class sometimes, but as 'someday to be millionaires.'

In practice that often translates into their glorifying the rich and demonizing the poor.

 

[Revoltingest]

What is the min. square spacing in your area?

Left Coast posted a link to our code.
In practice it's hard to determine at times.
But where I live, outside town, I don't know what restrictions there are.
Just that they're not a problem for anything I currently own.
Ann Arbor has a housing code.
My township doesn't have one....just zoning & building codes.

I was glad to stop doing business in that town.

 

[Quetzal]

Seems it is less about politics and more about psychology.
Despising the poor | The Psychologist

It gets presented as a political issue only because both parties try to use this against the other party.

That's fair enough, but I think it is also interesting to consider how psychology plays into personal politics.

 

[Valjean]

What is wealth? Is it a measure of self-worth, status or ego-identity? If so, 'redistribution' of your status to undeserving proles, by the government, is a grievous wrong, and outright theft.

Or is it just a medium of labor storage, that can be exchanged for the necessities of life. If this is the case, once you've amassed enough to cover food and shelter for the foreseeable future, any excess is materially extraneous, and could be better used to improve society in general or for security for others.

 

[Revoltingest]

The poor....they're just people.
I've known many.
I like & respect some.
I despise others.
It's all about the individual.

 

[Sunstone]

Another cause for the attitudes mentioned in the OP is the fact the rich and poor in America often no longer know each other on a personal, social level. They are geographically segregating and have been doing so for some time. The rich have been moving out of poorer neighborhoods and into their own enclaves -- including walled and gated communities -- and thus the poor have been left knowing only poor people.

That means in practice that it has become far easier for both groups to believe or swallow BS about each other. Easier because each group knows so little about the other. BS thrives on ignorance.

 

[Sunstone]

The formula for a healthy population seems to require that wealth be something not easy to get. Otherwise people stop working.

I believe that to be a myth lacking much empirical evidence to support it. Do you disagree? If so, do you know of any science backing up the myth?

 

[Vinayaka]

It will vary from place to place, depending on many things,
eg, renting vs owning, shape of the space, number of
occupants, relationships of the occupants, age of the
occupants, zoning.
In my town, I ran into the problem of maximum occupancy
being based upon age & family relationship. These laws
conflicted with Fair Housing laws, which banned discrimination
based upon age & family relationship. One never knew
if government might come down like a ton of bricks cuz
there were some rental situations where no matter what
one did, it was illegal under some law.

I had immigrant friends, a family of 9. They weren't allowed to apply for the local low-income subsidized housing, as the program maxed at 5 kids. (Why, I have no clue, maybe it was the legal occupancy for the size of the dwelling) ) They got around by declaring the two eldest sons as living with another friend. So, officially, they were 'just visiting'.

So yeah, your list of possible complications is longer than you listed.

 

[Sunstone]

But as for a poor or middle class neighborhood(never lived in a wealthy one), I'll take the poor. Usually a few more friendly people, and always more interesting.

That's more or less been my experience -- with exceptions. The relatively poorer neighboorhoods tend to have more people in them who are easy to befriend. But there can be several reasons for that. For instance, people in upper-middle class neighborhoods dominated by professionals and small business owners are usually exceedingly focused on their careers. They often do not know their next door neighbor by name, and do most of their socializing at work or church. They work such long hours, they have very little time to meet and get to know people beyond their work place or their church.

Many people in poorer neighborhoods work two or three jobs and are more or less in the same boat as the people in the upper middle class neighborhoods. But many people also do not. Many are unemployed or underemployed and have time to socialize with their neighbors.

Another factor is higher income people tend to move more long distances more often than poorer people. The poorest housed people change residences often, but they usually stay in the same town or neighborhood. The higher income people often change towns or even states and countries. All in pursuit of their careers.

But moving so often tends to break ties and friendships, and after a period of years, people tend to give up trying to form deeper, more meaningful friendships outside their own families. Too much pain involved in breaking up friendships every five or so years.

 

[Sunstone]

It gets presented as a political issue only because both parties try to use this against the other party.

So true, Nakosis! But what does not get politicized these days?

 

[Audie]

I want to amend my post a bit, because I had a thought. My original post isn't fair because it seems to be linked to political ideologies.

Liberals:

• Rich super evil
• Poor not so much

Conservatives

• Poor undeserving
• Rich super deserving

This is an over simplification, but I am interested in where these mindsets come from?

Your imagination?

Or what you've been fed?

 

[Audie]

Speaking of, I need to research the min. square foot rule. This week is the first time I have heard of this.

Who says i have a square foot rule!
I do metric.

 

[Sunstone]

What is wealth? Is it a measure of self-worth, status or ego-identity? If so, 'redistribution' of your status to undeserving proles, by the government, is a grievous wrong, and outright theft.

Or is it just a medium of labor storage, that can be exchanged for the necessities of life. If this is the case, once you've amassed enough to cover food and shelter for the foreseeable future, any excess is materially extraneous, and could be better used to improve society in general or for security for others.

DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!

"And what do we have for Valjean who hails to us from New Mexico, Ed?"

"Well, Bob, we have an all expenses paid vacation for two to the South Side of Chicago! Yes, Valjean and a lucky companion of his will bask in the Illinois sun for two weeks on a park bench (if they're lucky enough to seize one) while bathing in the luxurious waters of open fire hydrants!"

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I find it interesting that a considerable amount of animosity exists for the poor. In comparison, it seems that the wealthy are revered and almost worshiped. They can do no wrong and any suggestion that they exercise their innumerable resources to help those in need is met with harsh political resistance. Why?

That's what happens when major media is owned by corporations and billionaires. They have the power to transform society however they wish with media, and they have. Hence why we now worship mindless celebs and other inane people, and why pop culture is just vapid garbage, consumerism, etc. It's all instant gratification garbage that plays on base desires. Marketing and advertising agencies consult psychologists and have for decades. They know what they're doing.

 

[Nakosis]

What is wealth? Is it a measure of self-worth, status or ego-identity? If so, 'redistribution' of your status to undeserving proles, by the government, is a grievous wrong, and outright theft.

Or is it just a medium of labor storage, that can be exchanged for the necessities of life. If this is the case, once you've amassed enough to cover food and shelter for the foreseeable future, any excess is materially extraneous, and could be better used to improve society in general or for security for others.

Sure, folks ought to donate what they can afford to a charity of their choice.

 

[Audie]

That's what happens when major media is owned by corporations and billionaires. They have the power to transform society however they wish with media, and they have. Hence why we now worship mindless celebs and other inane people, and why pop culture is just vapid garbage, consumerism, etc. It's all instant gratification garbage that plays on base desires. Marketing and advertising agencies consult psychologists and have for decades. They know what they're doing.

People love celeb dcandals sos they can feel equal to or better than.

Or find some transcendence, thinking whst it must be likr to be glam.

Are you a mindless worshipper?