Richard Dawkins Facepalms at Deepak Chopra

[outhouse]

you ignored my answer,

You did not give a credible one. Biased Opinions are worthless.

What part of SUPPLY credible sources don't you understand???????????????????

 

[Runewolf1973]

So you agree that there is no actual activity going on, correct?

The activity or action is by perception only, however perception itself is an action. Seeing is an action. You cannot get behind action. That is why that absolute cannot be seen or percieved. That "inter" part can only be realized.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Dawkins is too closed minded. His atheist ideals are some of the worst I've heard. As they say, religion without science is blind, but science without religion is lame.

Love to hear how he'd react if the scientists he likes also practiced magic, religion and mysticism.

 

[godnotgod]

If you wish to make any kind of allegorical argument involving Plato's cave then he has everything to do with it.

What influence did Aristotle have on the Cave Allegory?

 

[godnotgod]

The activity or action is by perception only, however perception itself is an action. Seeing is an action. You cannot get behind action. That is why that absolute cannot be seen or percieved. That "inter" part can only be realized.

Where is the 'action' in seeing?

You keep talking about 'everything is interaction', but now you say the activity is via perception only. So there is no real action, then, according to you.

 

[outhouse]

, but science without religion is lame.

Rhetoric nothing more

 

[Runewolf1973]

Where is the 'action' in seeing?

You keep talking about 'everything is interaction', but now you say the activity is via perception only. So there is no real action, then, according to you.

What do you mean by seeing?

 

[godnotgod]

What do you mean by seeing?

You are the one who first used the word in post 865: ie; 'seeing is an action'

 

[godnotgod]

You did not give a credible one. Biased Opinions are worthless.

What part of SUPPLY credible sources don't you understand???????????????????

Since you haven't had a spiritual experience, you are not qualifed to judge my answer as a Biased Opinion. That is what it would be in YOUR world, and it is.

 

[Runewolf1973]

You are the one who first used the word in post 865: ie; 'seeing is an action'

You used the word here...

....But the mystic looks behind what he sees as an illusion to find THAT which is manifesting the illusion, The Absolute, and sees that the Universe itself is...

"The Universe is [none other than] The Absolute [itself], as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivekenanda

It is not about seeing or experiencing that Ultimate Reality, for seeing and experiencing are both actions. It is not about looking behind as the mystic or looking in front as the scientist, there is no forwards or backwards. It is about that "inter" and that is from within.

 

[godnotgod]

You used the word here...




It is not about seeing or experiencing that Ultimate Reality, for seeing and experiencing are both actions. It is not about looking behind as the mystic or looking in front as the scientist, there is no forwards or backwards. It is about that "inter" and that is from within.

The seeing, without thought, is always within, and as it is neither forwards nor backwards, it is also neither inter nor not-inter. It is non-dual. What your true nature is, consciousness, has always been The Absolute. There never was a time when it was not, not even for a single moment.

Seeing is pure consciousness itself, which is The Changeless. It is not an action, but a state of Being. IOW, pure consciousness and seeing are one and the same. Here there is absolute stillness.

The only thing that is moving is mind, but mind is an illusion.

 

[Runewolf1973]

"Inter" is the prefix of the word interaction. The meaning of inter is "between". The reality of this is that Unified Field, Absolute, or Ultimate Reality is neither behind those illusions, nor is it in front. It is not the foreground, nor is it the background. It is neither physical, nor is it non-physical. It is neither something, nor is it nothingness. It is neither conscious, nor is it unconscious. It is neither action, nor is it non-action. It is that which lies between everything. That is the Oneness which is in the middle.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The seeing, without thought, is always within, and as it is neither forwards nor backwards, it is also neither inter nor not-inter. It is non-dual. What your true nature is, consciousness, has always been The Absolute. There never was a time when it was not, not even for a single moment.

Seeing is pure consciousness itself, which is The Changeless. It is not an action, but a state of Being. IOW, pure consciousness and seeing are one and the same. Here there is absolute stillness.

I might have been wrong to use the term "within" as well, for it is neither within, nor it is without. It is neither change, nor is it changeless. It simply the middleground. The biggest conundrum we face is the words we put in front of what we are trying to describe. I suppose there is an opposite to the word "inter" as well and that could be "outer" and so this is where we get hung up with words. Words just don't quite cut it for that which is beyond both words and description.

 

[godnotgod]

I never heard of the word "not-inter" before. I also believe I was wrong with using the term "within" as well, for it is neither within, nor it is without. It is neither change, nor is it changeless. It simply the middleground. The biggest conundrum we face is the words we put in front of what we are trying to describe...for that which is beyond both words and description. Words can only come close.

The Changeless is The Absolute because it has no 'other' to compare it to, and the reason for that is because what we see as 'change' is nothing more than an illusion. So The Changeless is non-dual; it does not have change as an opposite.

It also is not in any middle, because that implies two sides, and there are no two sides. The Absolute is the Whole Enchilada. What the Yin/Yang symbol represents is this Whole Enchilada. And so:

"The Universe is The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivekenanda

 

[Runewolf1973]

The Changeless is The Absolute because it has no 'other' to compare it to, and the reason for that is because what we see as 'change' is nothing more than an illusion. So The Changeless is non-dual; it does not have change as an opposite.

It also is not in any middle, because that implies two sides, and there are no two sides. The Absolute is the Whole Enchilada. What the Yin/Yang symbol represents is this Whole Enchilada. And so:

"The Universe is The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivekenanda

That middleground knows no "sides" or "duality", that middle is Oneness...like the outer edge or ring on a coin. There is only one coin. The Yin/Yang symbol is really the same thing...where the two are as one.

 

[godnotgod]

That middleground knows no "sides" or "duality", that middle is Oneness...like the outer edge or ring on a coin. There is only one coin.

There is no middle because 'middle' requires either left and right, top and bottom, or up and down. So 'middle' must be defined by what is dual. It has to have a reference point. But The Absolute has no such reference point, and that is because there is no 'other' to which it can be compared. It is not relative to something else, as it is Everything, and it is Everything because it is No-Thing.

The middle cannot be The Absolute because the middle is not Everything.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

What influence did Aristotle have on the Cave Allegory?

That the cave allegory doesn't accurately provide an example of the difference between what we see and what is. Rather that substance has quality and that quality is what we see. We can never observer pure substance but only the qualities of that substance.

 

[godnotgod]

That the cave allegory doesn't accurately provide an example of the difference between what we see and what is. Rather that substance has quality and that quality is what we see. We can never observer pure substance but only the qualities of that substance.

So Aristotle had no influence on the writing of the Cave Allegory, at the time it was written. He only commented on what he considered flaws afterward.

I am using the Cave Allegory as metaphor, and as it stands, suits the purpose perfectly, which is that one must go see for oneself that which cannot be proved by any other means.

 

[Runewolf1973]

There is no middle because 'middle' requires either left and right, top and bottom, or up and down. So 'middle' must be defined by what is dual. It has to have a reference point. But The Absolute has no such reference point, and that is because there is no 'other' to which it can be compared. It is not relative to something else, as it is Everything, and it is Everything because it is No-Thing.

The middle cannot be The Absolute because the middle is not Everything.

Like I said, it is no different than the Yin/Yang. The "middle" or center can only be defined by the duality of the left and the right the same way as the "oneness" of the Yin/Yang symbol can only be defined by duality of the Yin and the Yang. One cannot simply go "see" for oneself because invariably one will see or experience two. Without a doubt if one tries to see the middle they will see two sides and a duality, but that is why that middle...the true center or oneness...cannot be seen, not even from within.

 

[Runewolf1973]

But really...I find that which can be seen and measured much more interesting.