Richard Dawkins Facepalms at Deepak Chopra

[Sleeppy]

Chopra is right: atoms do have a 'rudimentary' sense of awareness. Consciousness seems like a hard question; it really isn't. Human consciousness describes deterministic fluctuations in information storage and malleability. Wait and see.

 

[godnotgod]

That is your opinion and it is not supported by any evidence. Pure Consciousness is not a "something" from which anything can come out of, not even would-be illusions.

If something does not come out of the Nothingness of Consciousness, what does it come out of?

 

[Runewolf1973]

If something does not come out of the Nothingness of Consciousness, what does it come out of?

Quite possibly the Unified Field which is an interactive field, but not conscious.

 

[YmirGF]

Of course they reject it! They aren't enlightened yet as the Maharishi and Hagelin are, who are giants amongst those mental dwarfs, still clinging to the old stagnant paradigm of materialism.

MATERIALISM IS DEAD!

Calm yourself, man. Remember.... breath, relax, breathe... relax...
You really need a good shoulder to cry on, then perhaps, you wouldn't feel such a need to act out.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Chopra is right: atoms do have a 'rudimentary' sense of awareness. Consciousness seems like a hard question; it really isn't. Human consciousness describes deterministic fluctuations in information storage and malleability. Wait and see.

No. Atoms interact via fundamental forces. We are the same. Our "consciousness" is nothing more than complex interactions.

 

[godnotgod]

I believe those interactions may go on eternally. The basis or background for change/interaction is more change and more interaction.

...and behind that?...and tha?....and that? IOW, what is the Ultimate Reality behind APPARENT reality? (I don't think you're getting this at all, glued to your conceptual framework of 'eternal interaction' as you are). Is it not apparent to you that 'interaction' must have a beginning and an end? That beginning and end is the state of no-change. So if interaction comes out of no-change and ends with it, then no-change must be the fundamental reality, not change. Sound, too, comes out of silence and ends in silence. Silence is the fundamental reality: The Changeless Silence that is Pure Nothingness: Everything comes out of it, and returns to it.

 

[godnotgod]

Calm yourself, man. Remember.... breath, relax, breathe... relax...
You really need a good shoulder to cry on, then perhaps, you wouldn't feel such a need to act out.

Stop making excuses and putting up smokescreens to hide your dead horse.

MATERIALISM IS DEAD! GET OVER IT!

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, I believe it!!...because the evidence supports it. Your Pure Consciousness nonsense is supported by nothing! I never said the universe was static. The universe is dynamic and everchanging.

But you said the universe is the outcome of change. It is not an outcome of change; it is The Changeless, only seeming to change, an illusion. It cannot be the outcome of something else, since the Universe is already Everything there is, so there is no other 'else' that it can be an outcome of. It is The Absolute, 'the which of which there is no whicher'

 

[godnotgod]

The universe is interacting.

You like to think so. No, your MIND is interacting!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

...Ultimate Reality.....The Changeless Silence...Pure Nothingness:

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Consciousness comes before sight, sound smell, taste or touch, all of which are dependent upon consciousness. But I can be eating an orange on the other side of the world while describing it to you, and you would be conscious of it's taste, touch, sight, smell, as potential, via MY consciousness.

You clearly have no idea how to answer the question I posed.

 

[YmirGF]

Stop making excuses and putting up smokescreens to hide your dead horse.

MATERIALISM IS DEAD! GET OVER IT!

Do you always rant like this in real life, godnotgod?

For the record, materialism is very far from dead. That said, I am quite far removed from a materialist. Nice try though.

 

[YmirGF]

'the which of which there is no whicher'

Oh, good grief. Where do you get this rubbish from?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

. Your Pure Consciousness nonsense is supported by nothing!

It's basically a religious belief, a new-age take on Brahman. Chopra and co. attempt to bolt on some pseudo-science but the nuts are loose.

Smoke and mirrors and pretentious proper nouns!

 

[godnotgod]

No. Atoms interact via fundamental forces. We are the same. Our "consciousness" is nothing more than complex interactions.

Yes, just so many billiard balls mindlessly striking each other endlessly ad nauseum. ho hum. humans are nothing more than a complex chemical factory, with two eyes looking out onto a dead universe. your concept is nothing more than sterile reductionist thinking at its worst. You've rationalized us right out of existence..,..except for the interaction part, that is. 'Reason' can explain us clean away, can't it? Why, we're not conscious at all; it's all just an illusion.

 

[godnotgod]

Oh, good grief. Where do you get this rubbish from?

Sorry. It's actually: 'the which than which there is no whicher'.

It's about The Absolute, and you're it, but you don't know it, or rather, you play the game of pretending that you don't. I wouldn't go so far as to call yourself 'rubbish', though.

"And who are you?

Don't give me your name, address and occupation ... You know that's just a mask ... a front ... a big act. Who puts it on? Who puts it on ... your body? Huh! What an act that is! And who puts that on? Your father and mother? Did they put you on? Come off it. You know very well who You are, but you won't admit it. Deep in there in the middle, middle of your heart, You know it. You've always been around and always will be. And the You in you is the same as the You in me.


You're not some sort of tourist just visiting in this world for a short time. You belong here, like the apple on the tree. And as the apple is the energy of the tree, you, yes You, are the energy of the world.


You don't know who You are do you? You can't really get at yourself, just as the fingertip can't touch itself and the teeth can't bite themselves. And that's because You ... the far in you ... is what we call Brahman, the Self of the Universe. The Which of which there is no whicher. The Heart and Foundation of all that's going on."

http://www.harisingh.com/YouAreTheEssence.htm

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Sorry. It's actually: 'the which than which there is no whicher'.

Oh right, that makes sense now.

 

[godnotgod]

Your Pure Consciousness nonsense is supported by nothing!

I. Pure Consciousness/Mystical Experiences​

There is a central psychospiritual state of consciousness for which there is now adequate scientific evidence that the experience of it is healthy, life enhancing, and promotes development. It is pure consciousness. Several other transpersonal experiences can be understood as clustering in some way around or leading to this central experience.

But what is pure consciousness (PC)? Alexander, Chandler and Boyer (1990) define PC as "a silent state of inner wakefulness with no object of thought or perception (p. 1)." They hold that it is conditioned not simply by cultural or intellectual elements, but by fundamental psychophysiological conditions which are universally available across cultures. Qualities of this state are implicated in their expanded definition:

If pure consciousness is without content, it would be, ..., nonchanging because there is no content in it that could change.* It would be simple because without content, there are no parts. It would be completely one, having no diversity of content. It would be self-referring, because there is nothing other than itself to refer to or know. It would be unbounded because there is no bounded content of awareness to engage or limit awareness.

http://www.sawka.com/spiritwatch/cehsc/ipure.htm


*This coincides with the Buddhistic idea of 'Emptiness', and the Vedantist idea of The Changeless. In addition, PC has no memory; no history. It is like a perfect mirror that perfectly reflects all, yet retains nothing. IOW, it leaves no trace.

 

[godnotgod]

Oh right, that makes sense now.

If you think it is supposed to 'make sense', then you have failed to understand.

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, I believe it!!...because the evidence supports it.

That's just because the quality of the illusion is so good. It's OK that you've been taken in; that's the whole point.

The evidence supports predictability and repeatability, but so what? The universe works in patterns and cycles. That's just because it's fundamental nature is intelligent and conscious.