Richard Dawkins on Jesus Dying for Sins

[Rational Agnostic]

I came across this quote by Richard Dawkins today, and it is one of the most brilliant and concise illustrations of the absurdity of Christianity that I've seen. Christians, how would you respond to this?

If God wanted to forgive our sins, why not just forgive them? Who's God trying to impress? Presumably himself, since he is judge and jury, as well as execution victim.

-Richard Dawkins

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So there!

 

[exchemist]

I came across this quote by Richard Dawkins today, and it is one of the most brilliant and concise illustrations of the absurdity of Christianity that I've seen. Christians, how would you respond to this?

If God wanted to forgive our sins, why not just forgive them? Who's God trying to impress? Presumably himself, since he is judge and jury, as well as execution victim.

-Richard Dawkins

Yes, I've never bought into the interpretation of the Atonement that God would make a rule for himself requiring human sacrifice to make amends for the sins of others. But there are other interpretations besides that one. Dawkins, knowing next to nothing about religion and not caring to find out, would not know this. The one I find personally appealing is the moral influence theory of Abelard.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've often wondered if the "dying for our sins" narrative was midrash finding its justification in the biblical discussion of the cities of refuge and (implied) atonement resulting from the death of the high priest. (See Numbers 35:19-29)

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Yes, I've never bought into the interpretation of the Atonement that God would make a rule for himself requiring human sacrifice to make amends for the sins of others. But there are other interpretations besides that one. Dawkins, knowing next to nothing about religion and not caring to find out, would not know this. The one I find personally appealing is the moral influence theory of Abelard.

What makes you think Dawkins knows next to nothing about religion? He has interviewed and debated countless priests, pastors, and other religious leaders from nearly all denominations of Christianity, and has also interviewed many Jews and Muslims. I think he is well-informed. What is the theory of Abelard?

 

[epronovost]

I came across this quote by Richard Dawkins today, and it is one of the most brilliant and concise illustrations of the absurdity of Christianity that I've seen. Christians, how would you respond to this?

If God wanted to forgive our sins, why not just forgive them? Who's God trying to impress? Presumably himself, since he is judge and jury, as well as execution victim.

-Richard Dawkins

The best explanation for sacrifices to gain forgiveness or the sympathy of the gods or God I have heard is based on people's belief about how magic and blood curses worked back in the day where priests where not just some sort of scholars of scriptures, but also magicians and believed to be capable of invocating a portion of their god's power. This sort of tradition continues within Christianity through faith healers and people speaking in tongues.

 

[Jimmy]

I came across this quote by Richard Dawkins today, and it is one of the most brilliant and concise illustrations of the absurdity of Christianity that I've seen. Christians, how would you respond to this?

If God wanted to forgive our sins, why not just forgive them? Who's God trying to impress? Presumably himself, since he is judge and jury, as well as execution victim.

-Richard Dawkins

God needed a way to start over and Jesus was his way

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The best explanation for sacrifices to gain forgiveness or the sympathy of the gods or God I have heard is based on people's belief about how magic and blood curses worked back in the day where priests where not just some sort of scholars of scriptures, but also magicians and believed to be capable of invocating a portion of their god's power. This sort of tradition continues within Christianity through faith healers and people speaking in tongues.

Despite what I said above, blood guilt was a big thing in the ANE and could obly be atoned with blood, but to equate the sin of each and every individual with blood guilt seems a stretch.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

God needed a way to start over and Jesus was his way

That strike me as a less than creative solution.

 

[Jimmy]

That strike me as a less than creative solution.

I suppose he could've used an animal

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I suppose he could've used an animal

Or, perhaps an effigy.

 

[Jimmy]

Or, perhaps an effigy.

Indeed

 

[icehorse]

Yup. It seems to me that this just a form of scapegoating, which is morally quite dubious.

 

[Deeje]

I came across this quote by Richard Dawkins today, and it is one of the most brilliant and concise illustrations of the absurdity of Christianity that I've seen. Christians, how would you respond to this?

If God wanted to forgive our sins, why not just forgive them? Who's God trying to impress? Presumably himself, since he is judge and jury, as well as execution victim.

-Richard Dawkins

Reading the replies here is interesting to say the least.....

What Richard Dawkins knows about God, his purpose and the Bible would fit on the head of a pin.

He knows nothing about atonement....he knows nothing about redemption....and he knows nothing about God's laws or how his purpose is being played out exactly as he said it would in our time. (2 Peter 3:3-4)

Dawkins has an ego the size of a house and it will prove true that the bigger they are (or imagine themselves to be) the harder they will fall.

Be patient Mr Dawkins......and you will see that what God foretells, will come to pass without your vast scientific knowledge or experience accounting for any part of it. Knowing about religions doesn't mean you know anything about God.

 

[Sunstone]

I think Dawkins main contribution to the debate over Christianity in America, at least, is how he's provided moral support for people whose views don't align with fundamentalism in areas of the country where fundamentalism dominates the conversation. Dawkins talks about the letters and emails he gets from people in, say, the rural South who thank him for how reading his books made them feel less isolated and marginalized.

That's to say, there is not much that's deeply informed about Dawkins' criticisms, but he does reassure a lot of people that they are neither alone, nor freaks.

 

[epronovost]

Reading the replies here is interesting to say the least.....

What Richard Dawkins knows about God, his purpose and the Bible would fit on the head of a pin.

He knows nothing about atonement....he knows nothing about redemption....and he knows nothing about God's laws or how his purpose is being played out exactly as he said it would in our time. (2 Peter 3:3-4)

Dawkins has an ego the size of a house and it will prove true that the bigger they are (or imagine themselves to be) the harder they will fall.

Be patient Mr Dawkins......and you will see that what God foretells, will come to pass without your vast scientific knowledge or experience accounting for any part of it. Knowing about religions doesn't mean you know anything about God.

I love it when a dude who strongly believes he understand the "word of God", that his holy book holds all the answers and the greatest truths and widsom in the universe says about another dude that he is arrogant and foolish. It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Deeje]

I love it when a dude who strongly believes he understand the "word of God", that his holy book holds all the answers and the greatest truths and widsom in the universe says about another dude that he is arrogant and foolish. It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I'm not a dude...dude. And please don't mistake confidence for arrogance.
Dawkins struts around a stage like he is science's version of Jesus Christ....but he is saving no one from anything.

 

[Augustus]

I came across this quote by Richard Dawkins today, and it is one of the most brilliant and concise illustrations of the absurdity of Christianity that I've seen. Christians, how would you respond to this?

If God wanted to forgive our sins, why not just forgive them? Who's God trying to impress? Presumably himself, since he is judge and jury, as well as execution victim.

-Richard Dawkins

Brilliant?

"And what about that Icarus, eh? Making wings from feathers and wax, how stupid! Any scientist could tell you it just wouldn't work! Don't these people understand physics?

If the Greeks had wanted to warn people not to be hubristic lest you suffer a great fall, why didn't they just say "don't be hubristic lest you suffer a great fall" instead of concocting some ludicrously irrational story about a bird-man!"

 

[epronovost]

I'm not a dude...dude. And please don't mistake confidence for arrogance.
Dawkins struts around a stage like he is science's version of Jesus Christ....but he is saving no one from anything.

We could make the argument that Dawkins can help people avoid being fleaced by cults and religious groups, confidence and hope for non-believers in areas dominated by believers and teach a measure of critical thinking and basic science education which are key skills in your daily life. You cannot make them claim that you or any religious leaders either are saving anybody with their faith.

PS: dude, in that context, was an agender noun, but I'll keep you gender in mind in the future; thanks for mentionning it.

 

[Left Coast]

What is the theory of Abelard?

Moral influence theory of atonement - Wikipedia