Ridiculous statement of Jesus?

[Thanda]

That is not a supportable position.

As you are well aware faith is thinking something exist without any evidence in support.


It would be similar to saying imagination goes beyond what scientists can and can't currently explain.

Again I don't get your point here. Suppose I tell you I am feeling lonely right now. And suppose you ask me to prove. I would likely be unable to prove it to you.

Now what would you say to that? Do I know I am lonely or do I have faith that I am lonely?

 

[outhouse]

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

Thanda.

You said you embrace the truth. I have showed evidence you do no such thing, you refuse truth in many places.


Then you tried ti dance around the subject saying your own personal truth is not the same as everyone else's truth.



There is only one truth, the question is how aware are you of said truth.

 

[Thanda]

Um if you have not noticed, the worlds population goes to a place 1 to 2 times a week to be taught by those educated more on the topic.

I mean lets look at you for example, I doubt you even know Jesus real first name he and his followers used.


If you don't even know a mans first name, how can you know the man? By reading a book written by unknown authors from a different culture and religion who never heard a word he said, living in a different part of the world decades later?

Your belief that knowing that Jesus was actually Joshua somehow has any relevance to faith and spirituality shows how really shallow your understanding of this subject is.
God is a living being who communicates with us now, today. I need not get a phd in the history of the bible to talk with him and have a relationship with him. Even a man who cannot count to ten (because of a lack of education) can have a relationship with God just as well as an esteemed scholar could.

And religion is not so much about concepts as it is about practice. And it is in the practice of religion that it's true value is realized - not in its debating or discussion.

 

[outhouse]

Again I don't get your point here. Suppose I tell you I am feeling lonely right now. And suppose you ask me to prove. I would likely be unable to prove it to you.

Now what would you say to that? Do I know I am lonely or do I have faith that I am lonely?

The truth is obvious that you were lonely, I would not ask for proof.


In context theology is historically based not emotional or just spiritual. The Abrahamic religions are all called historical religions

 

[Thanda]

Thanda.

You said you embrace the truth. I have showed evidence you do no such thing, you refuse truth in many places.


Then you tried ti dance around the subject saying your own personal truth is not the same as everyone else's truth.



There is only one truth, the question is how aware are you of said truth.

Please tell me the truth and also tell me how that will improve my well being and the quality of my life - indeed tell me how your truth will bring me joy and happiness.

 

[Thanda]

The truth is obvious that you were lonely, I would not ask for proof.


In context theology is historically based not emotional or just spiritual. The Abrahamic religions are all called historical religions

How is it a historical religion?

 

[outhouse]

Your belief that knowing that Jesus was actually Joshua somehow has any relevance to faith and spirituality shows how really shallow your understanding of this subject is.

He never used or heard the word Joshua. Nor Jesus, nor Yehoshua or Yeshua. Maybe Lesous but not primary.

And religion is not so much about concepts as it is about practice.

I'm not worried about the practices.

Its the claims of the people who practice is where the trouble starts.

 

[outhouse]

How is it a historical religion?

Because it was based on possible historical events in Judaism, and with historical accounts of Jesus

 

[Thanda]

Because it was based on possible historical events in Judaism, and with historical accounts of Jesus

Okay. Now please could you tell me about the non-historical religions.

 

[outhouse]

Please tell me the truth and also tell me how that will improve my well being and the quality of my life - indeed tell me how your truth will bring me joy and happiness.

My truth is to hold no bias in interpreting the text. By study of the text, I have a deep appreciation of how the message and theology develop.

Knowledge builds value to the theology, morals and lessons that goes way beyond mythology and rhetoric.

 

[Thanda]

My truth is to hold no bias in interpreting the text. By study of the text, I have a deep appreciation of how the message and theology develop.

Knowledge builds value to the theology, morals and lessons that goes way beyond mythology and rhetoric.

Okay, but this hasn't enlightened me yet. I currently believe in striving for the Christian virtues most of which are enumerated in the Sermon on the Mount. Do you have anything else to offer above those teachings that will make me a happier person?

 

[outhouse]

Okay, but this hasn't enlightened me yet. I currently believe in striving for the Christian virtues most of which are enumerated in the Sermon on the Mount. Do you have anything else to offer above those teachings that will make me a happier person?

You do know the sermon on the mount has no historicity at all?


Still don't know Jesus first REAL name? yet you live your life around the person?

 

[Thanda]

You do know the sermon on the mount has no historicity at all?


Still don't know Jesus first REAL name? yet you live your life around the person?

You know that I don't really care right?

Let me tell you what I do care about - truth. Now this will surprise since you believe truth is science and history. But there are other truths which are equally if not more important than that.

Let me give an example of spiritual truth. Often when a matter comes up in my mind that troubles me or which I am not ready to deal with I, probably perfectly naturally, start singing. I love to sing but singing in this case serves a bit of a sinister purpose. It distracts me from having to actually deal with the situation at hand. It allows me to delay my mind for long enough until I am finally able move on to some other pursuit which will cause the troubling thought to disappear. However I have come to realise that this perfectly natural coping mechanism is no good for my long-term well being. My singing, like an alcoholic's drinking, doesn't solve my problem, it merely delays my corrective action by helping me momentarily escape. The truth (spiritual truth) dictates that if I truly desire to progress, I must face "my demons" and tackle my problems head-on.
This bit of knowledge is something I know as a 28 year-old which I could have also known as a 12 year-old had I been willing to receive it. These are the type of truths that we can learn from people who lived thousands of years ago as well as from people living today. Significantly these are truths for which we require no historian, academic or scientist to help us learn. So Jesus sermon on the mount contains such truth. And as I live by I find more joy and happiness in my life. And then you come and say: but hey, it is not historical. But I say: and so? Is it true though? Are the meek really blessed? Are the pure in heart really blessed? Are the peacemakers really blessed? And if these verses encourage me and you to seek to be meek, pure in heart and peacemakers, why exactly should I care what you or anyone else think Jesus real name was?

Let me ask you something else. You say that through your historical and scientific research you have come to understand the doctrine even better than someone (like me) who is ignorant of research. So tell me, do you have greater joy, peace and fulfillment in your life as a result of this research? Are you a happier man than those of us who are more ignorant than you. Have you found the meaning of life?

 

[outhouse]

Let me tell you what I do care about - truth.

You have not shown me that, nor anyone else that can tell.

Now this will surprise since you believe truth is science and history

False.

They are a large part of truth though.

But there are other truths which are equally if not more important than that.

That me be, but you don't get to reject and replace truth with mythology or pseudo history.

You know that I don't really care right?

I'm fully aware that you want to pick and choose truth that suits you.


Your missing the point. The point is that many people live their lives around beliefs they don't understand.

How much can you know about a mans teachings if you don't even know the mans first name?

These are the type of truths that we can learn from people who lived thousands of years ago as well as from people living today.

That is correct, and good advise.

However with science and history, we are able to place these lesson in context. A context those without the knowledge cannot grasp ever. Many don't get the full message.

Significantly these are truths for which we require no historian, academic or scientist to help us learn

You would be mistaken. Many of the parables require research to understand.

Like the mustard seed. Explain to me about the parable of the mustard seed, and I will show you another example of how valuable historical knowledge is.

You cannot tell me that knowledge has no value.

So tell me, do you have greater joy, peace and fulfillment in your life as a result of this research?

Absolutely.

Are you a happier man than those of us who are more ignorant than you. Have you found the meaning of life?

As someone older then you who has more life experience, let me offer a bit of advise. Attitude goes a long way, a bad attitude and a lot of knowledge is not as valuable as a good attitude and knowledge. So ignorance is not always relative to value or happiness. I am a very happy man.

Yes I have found the meaning of life.



I do however think you mistake my context and opinion here. I am not replacing theology with science and history. I am adding to the value of theology with history and science.

I am not an antitheist, I find so much value in theism, that I study every aspect in detail to the point of multiple universities and learning outlets as well as teaching it. I have a passion many do not. It bothers me to see people half hearted, but that's no big deal its the people who don't see the value of moderation and who over attribute certainty without knowing that is the worst.

 

[Etritonakin]

Oh my gosh...I did not mean to make it sound as though you cannot speak to me. Holy Mary...I am so sorry. Of course you can. I see your point but the verses do seem, on the surface, to contradict one another. But, as I said, these things were written long after these things took place so anything is possible.

"Intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

I was just reminded of a story about several people who saw the same thing, but described it differently -and that thing was a chameleon.

Either scripture is purely of man, or God decides what is presented, known, or understood -even altered -and at what point.

 

[Robert.Evans]

This is false. The text says he spoke to a particular group people using only parables.

It says:
Mat 13:34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable.

The NT is a parable.

 

[Robert.Evans]

That is exactly the type of thing that Outhouse was trying to point out. And it is unsubstantiated, Christian apologist rhetoric with no basis in fact.

It says:
Mat 13:34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable.

 

[Robert.Evans]

That is not a supportable position.

As you are well aware faith is thinking something exist without any evidence in support.


It would be similar to saying imagination goes beyond what scientists can and can't currently explain.

Faith is substantiated because it comes from God. Know your scriptures.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Without understanding the a historical, scientific or academic standpoint, you cannot begin to understand the theological.

Absolute rubbish!
A clear demonstration that you do not know what the heck you are talking about.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Provide sources.

The text was written by many different people who were not there.

Mt 13.34