Right and Wrong debate for the existence of God...

[tumbleweed41]

It is apparent that human beings have innate faculties for knowing right and wrong. Where did this come from? How does it fit into evolution?

Human morality is the result of Societal Evolution. Those traits, both biological and societal, that are conducive to three or more humans living together are passed on from generation to generation.
As society changes, what is considered "right and wrong" can change.

And morality can differ quite a bit from society to society.

 

[waitasec]

Survival. Knowing that some stuff hurts, it dawns on us that if we avoid it we won't hurt. Knowing to avoid hurt is good. Not knowing to avoid hurt is bad. Good: right. Bad: wrong. Avoiding wrong stuff therefore increases ones chance to grow old enough to reproduce, and the ability to reproduce is necessary for any organism to evolve.

what about empathy?

 

[waitasec]

Koko the sign language speaking gorilla was once asked if she wanted to hurt a male she perceived as a threat for her attention with one of her female caregivers (or it might have been the other way around, but still).

She responded "no"

When asked why not, she responded "Because he's like me"

If that's not the Golden Rule then I don't know what is. We don't want to hurt other sentient beings because they, like us, are aware.

that is amazing to me that an animal can understand abstract words like "hurt" and "likes", i'm gonna give my kitty some lovin right now, if she'll let me...

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Koko the sign language speaking gorilla was once asked if she wanted to hurt a male she perceived as a threat for her attention with one of her female caregivers (or it might have been the other way around, but still).

She responded "no"

When asked why not, she responded "Because he's like me"

If that's not the Golden Rule then I don't know what is. We don't want to hurt other sentient beings because they, like us, are aware.

All this shows is they are able to learn to some degree what good and bad or right and wrong are. While it is impressive, it doesn't discount that humans are innately able to make such decisions.

Do you think without human involvement Koko would feel such a way? If raised in the wild? I'm not so sure... I won't claim either way, cause I don't know enough.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Human morality is the result of Societal Evolution. Those traits, both biological and societal, that are conducive to three or more humans living together are passed on from generation to generation.
As society changes, what is considered "right and wrong" can change.

And morality can differ quite a bit from society to society.

Do these traits have to be taught? I am not following you if you are suggesting knowing right and wrong are part biological. Please explain...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It is apparent that human beings have innate faculties for knowing right and wrong. Where did this come from? How does it fit into evolution?

Pretty much like every other attribute. A survival advantage was conferred upon those who exhibited behaviors that we consider "right." Thus, they were more likely to pass along their genes, and, ultimately, these behaviors.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Pretty much like every other attribute. A survival advantage was conferred upon those who exhibited behaviors that we consider "right." Thus, they were more likely to pass along their genes, and, ultimately, these behaviors.

So moral thought is a physical trait that can be passed down? I am not sure science is ready to make that claim yet, but I think they are working on it. So I disagree with you that it is like every other attribute.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So moral thought is a physical trait that can be passed down? I am not sure science is ready to make that claim yet, but I think they are working on it. So I disagree with you that it is like every other attribute.

You're the one who asked how it fit in with evolution. If you don't want the answer, don't ask.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

You're the one who asked how it fit in with evolution. If you don't want the answer, don't ask.

Suduenckks sidhdbeuqieude jeuehendjejshshs

I was looking for more than giberish, so pissss off...

 

[Meow Mix]

Suduenckks sidhdbeuqieude jeuehendjejshshs

I will translate. Apparently the banjos are slippery and require beards.

 

[Skwim]

what about empathy?

That comes later, but yes. Empathy for sure.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I will translate. Apparently the banjos are slippery and require beards.

Truly, his claim that morals are reducible to physical traits that can be passed down simply has not been shown to be true.
When I question his response, he says I shouldn't have asked a question. Again to him, pisss off...

 

[dogsgod]

Altruism has an evolutionary explanation in that protecting others protects genes likely to be similar to yours. This is likely why incest taboos exist as well: to protect the integrity of the gene pool.

Humans, as sentient beings, are no longer bound in the various selection arenas. We are able to abstract ideas from their original purpose such that we can take this evolved trait of altruism and apply it to, say, a puppy or something that doesn't share many of our genes.

Even some animals like dolphins and dogs are apt to behave altruistically towards non-dolphins and non-dogs but then again they also exhibit a relatively high amount of sentience, too.

Puppies grow up to be dogs and humans depend on dogs for our own survival. Humans need many hours of sleep and originally relied on dogs to wake them should a dangerous predator approach.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Do these traits have to be taught? I am not following you if you are suggesting knowing right and wrong are part biological. Please explain...

Some are taught, others are the result of biological tendencies.
Both nature and nurture play roles in societal attitudes.

 

[Tre-L]

So let's begin...

It is apparent that human beings have innate faculties for knowing right and wrong. Where did this come from? How does it fit into evolution?

Who's first?

I disagree with the terms right and wrong. I think we have innate faculties to 'discover' the difference between what is wise and unwise. This fits into evolution in as much as we are able to learn from life experience and from our pasts. Right and wrong are misleading terms (IMO) much like good and evil, they exist only in the minds of mankind. We do have the capacity to attain wisdom however, discovering what is beneficial to us a a species and what is not.