Right turn on red? With pedestrian deaths rising, US cities are considering bans

[Stevicus]

Right turn on red? With pedestrian deaths rising, US cities are considering bans

Almost every major city in the United States generally allows drivers to turn right at red lights, but that could be changing.

apnews.com

“What’s really behind this movement is part of the agenda to make driving as miserable and as difficult as possible so people don’t drive so much,” Beeber said.

Priya Sarathy Jones, deputy executive director at the Fines and Fees Justice Center, is concerned penalties from right-on-red bans will fall disproportionately on lower-income drivers who have to drive to work because they can’t afford housing near public transit. If there’s more enforcement at red lights, more cameras are certain to follow, she said. And in the Chicago area, any discussion of red light policy often conjures up memories of the region’s vilified red-light camera program, which spurred bribery charges against public officials accused of trying to influence the high-profit contracts.

“It generates a lot of money for the city, instead of our decisions being driven by safety strategies backed by evidence,” she said, suggesting that road infrastructure improvements would be a much more effective way to reduce accidents.

It does seem like overkill to make a blanket ban when there are so few accidents associated with right turns on red.

One quote from the article that I found interesting was this:

“Drivers should not have the option to decide for themselves when they think it’s safe,” said Langerman, 26. “People are busy. People are distracted.”

"Drivers should not have the option to decide for themselves when they think it’s safe"? Really?

I can see it in high-density areas, where there's a lot of pedestrian traffic and visibility might be obstructed. But many other intersections are pretty clear and easy to see if it's safe to turn on red. I've done it plenty of times; it's simply a matter of looking for pedestrians and oncoming traffic. Occasionally someone might make a U-turn from the cross street, which one also has to watch out for.

Of course, I've also learned when I'm a pedestrian or on a bicycle to keep an eye out for cars making right turns on red (as well as cars in the opposite direction making left turns on green, as that's also a hazard).

Another thing that chimed with me in this article was "road infrastructure improvements would be a much more effective way to reduce accidents." That definitely seems to be where the problem lies. Improvements in public transportation would also help to relieve some of the traffic congestion. But instead of doing that, the politicians want to add more ordinances and give law enforcement more excuses to stop and pull people over - which can further exacerbate the already-tense relations between the police and the general public.

Do you think that banning right turn on red would improve traffic safety? Are there are other improvements in traffic safety which could be made?

 

[Revoltingest]

Right turn on red = Good

 

[SalixIncendium]

Do you think that banning right turn on red would improve traffic safety?

It might mitigate pedestrian injuries and fatalities at intersections, but it would just exacerbate traffic congestion, thus leading to increased frustration, road rage, and the need to rush, leading to injuries/deaths elsewhere on the roadway.

Are there are other improvements in traffic safety which could be made?

Improved driver education (teaching drivers that pedestrians do, indeed, have right away even when turning right on red) and better enforcement.

I've seen police look the other way when drivers are turning right on red even when pedestrians are in that crosswalk. There are traffic cams at nearly every intersection; perhaps posting warning signage an issuing citations for drivers that enter crosswalks when pedestrians are present would encourage drivers to obey the law.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Do you think that banning right turn on red would improve traffic safety? Are there are other improvements in traffic safety which could be made?

I like roundabouts. I know many people hate them, but I like them. I think traffic lights are also a weakness every time the power grid fails. If you want your city to keep functioning and want people to be able to evacuate then you could not do better than to put in roundabouts. If you want trucks to easily come and go, then get roundabouts.

And if miserable driving is your goal....get roundabouts. People hate them. I don't, but a lot of people do.

 

[Revoltingest]

It might mitigate pedestrian injuries and fatalities at intersections, but it would just exacerbate traffic congestion, thus leading to increase frustration, road rage, and the need to rush, leading to injuries/deaths elsewhere on the roadway.


Improved driver education (teaching drivers that pedestrians do, indeed, have right away even when turning right on red) and better enforcement.

I've seen police look the other way when drivers are turning right on red even when pedestrians are in that crosswalk. There are traffic cams at nearly every intersection, perhaps posting warning signage an issuing citations for drivers that enter crosswalks when pedestrians are present would encourage drivers to obey the law.

In Ann Arbor, the pedestrian needn't even be in a
crosswalk to be ticketed for driving thru a cross walk.
We required to discern the pedestrian's intent to
leave the sidewalk to enter the crosswalk.

I avoid driving in town as much as possible.
City council is nuts.

 

[SalixIncendium]

In Ann Arbor, the pedestrian needn't even be in a
crosswalk to be ticketed for driving thru a cross walk.
We required to discern the pedestrian's intent to
leave the sidewalk to enter the crosswalk.

I avoid driving in town as much as possible.
City council is nuts.

I'd be interested to see how many pedestrian injuries/fatalities they have resulting in right turn on red.

 

[Stevicus]

I like roundabouts. I know many people hate them, but I like them. I think traffic lights are also a weakness every time the power grid fails. If you want your city to keep functioning and want people to be able to evacuate then you could not do better than to put in roundabouts. If you want trucks to easily come and go, then get roundabouts.

And if miserable driving is your goal....get roundabouts. People hate them. I don't, but a lot of people do.

Whenever I hear the term "roundabout," I think of three things: Penny Lane, Big Ben, and Parliament.

 

[SalixIncendium]

In Ann Arbor, the pedestrian needn't even be in a
crosswalk to be ticketed for driving thru a cross walk.
We required to discern the pedestrian's intent to
leave the sidewalk to enter the crosswalk.

I avoid driving in town as much as possible.
City council is nuts.

I'd be interested to see how many pedestrian injuries/fatalities they have resulting in right turn on red.

Actually, I just looked it up. Right turn on red is now prohibited in downtown Ann Arbor.

The college town of Ann Arbor, Michigan, now prohibits right turns at red lights in the downtown area.​

​

Right turn on red? With pedestrian deaths rising, US cities are considering bans

By JEFF McMURRAY Associated Press CHICAGO (AP) — Sophee Langerman was on her way to a bicycle safety rally in Chicago’s Lakeview neighborhood in June when a car turning right rolled through a red light and slammed into her bike, which she was walking off the curb and into the crosswalk. The car...

www.theintelligencer.net

 

[Secret Chief]

Red = red.

 

[Stevicus]

I'd be interested to see how many pedestrian injuries/fatalities they have resulting in right turn on red.

One of the people quoted in the article cited a study on that:

He cited an upcoming study by his association that analyzed California crash data from 2011-2019 and found that drivers turning right on red accounted for only about one pedestrian death and less than one bicyclist death statewide every two years.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Red = red.

I'm not sure what traffic laws are over there; all I know is Americans can't get left in roundabouts.

But on this side of the pond, right turn on red is a legal maneuver in most areas unless otherwise posted.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Right turn on red? With pedestrian deaths rising, US cities are considering bans

Almost every major city in the United States generally allows drivers to turn right at red lights, but that could be changing.

apnews.com

It does seem like overkill to make a blanket ban when there are so few accidents associated with right turns on red.

One quote from the article that I found interesting was this:



"Drivers should not have the option to decide for themselves when they think it’s safe"? Really?

I can see it in high-density areas, where there's a lot of pedestrian traffic and visibility might be obstructed. But many other intersections are pretty clear and easy to see if it's safe to turn on red. I've done it plenty of times; it's simply a matter of looking for pedestrians and oncoming traffic. Occasionally someone might make a U-turn from the cross street, which one also has to watch out for.

Of course, I've also learned when I'm a pedestrian or on a bicycle to keep an eye out for cars making right turns on red (as well as cars in the opposite direction making left turns on green, as that's also a hazard).

Another thing that chimed with me in this article was "road infrastructure improvements would be a much more effective way to reduce accidents." That definitely seems to be where the problem lies. Improvements in public transportation would also help to relieve some of the traffic congestion. But instead of doing that, the politicians want to add more ordinances and give law enforcement more excuses to stop and pull people over - which can further exacerbate the already-tense relations between the police and the general public.

Do you think that banning right turn on red would improve traffic safety? Are there are other improvements in traffic safety which could be made?

It's pretty stupid and likely a money making scheme.

Already at dangerous intersections, they just post a no turn on red sign. Works fine as it is.

 

[Father Heathen]

If they ban right turn on red, then they better optimize their ****ty light cycles.

 

[SalixIncendium]

...light cycles

Didn't they drive those in Tron?

 

[crossfire]

I'd be interested to see how many pedestrian injuries/fatalities they have resulting in right turn on red.

One should be able to see pedestrians in the crosswalk right in front of you. There shouldn't be any pedestrians in the crosswalk of the street you are making a right turn on when your light is red. However, you really have to look out for pedestrians in the crosswalk of the street you are making a right turn onto when your light is green. I would say a right turn on red is safer (for pedestrians) than a right turn on green is.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd be interested to see how many pedestrian injuries/fatalities they have resulting in right turn on red.

I couldn't find any for my town.
Not even nationally.

 

[Father Heathen]

Didn't they drive those in Tron?

They literally turn on a dime which is what catches the pedestrians off guard.

 

[PureX]

Many decades of horrible municipal planning based on the desires of commercial entities has resulted in the US becoming and endless stretch of suburban sprawl that forces everyone to drive everywhere. Leaving those unfortunate pedestrians left walking in grave danger of the often stupid and distracted drivers on clogged roadways that were never designed for pedestrians to cross. So of course more pedestrians are being injured and killed. And the popular knee-jerk reaction is to frustrate automobile use (Manhattan's insane rush-hour tax proposal, for example).

Unfortunately, we can't undo many decades of horrible urban and suburban planning by frustrating drivers and traffic flow, or by raising taxes on moving vehicles. But "knee-jerk" solutions are all our incompetent government officials have ever known, and so are all they seem to be capable of coming up with, anymore.

The real solutions can be found in the Urban planning of cities and suburbs in other countries (in Europe, mostly) that were not so insanely beholding to automobile traffic that they neglected to consider and encourage pedestrian movement. And in fact it turns out that those planned population centers are actually far better for their commercial interests, as well. The big isolated shopping centers that we so loved to build in the US are actually not as convenient or pleasant to use as the far more pedestrian friendly 'village center' designs in other nations.

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually, I just looked it up. Right turn on red is now prohibited in downtown Ann Arbor.

The college town of Ann Arbor, Michigan, now prohibits right turns at red lights in the downtown area.​

​

Right turn on red? With pedestrian deaths rising, US cities are considering bans

By JEFF McMURRAY Associated Press CHICAGO (AP) — Sophee Langerman was on her way to a bicycle safety rally in Chicago’s Lakeview neighborhood in June when a car turning right rolled through a red light and slammed into her bike, which she was walking off the curb and into the crosswalk. The car...

www.theintelligencer.net

Dang....well that's a new one for me.
But I've managed to avoid downtown for several years now.
Right turn on red is still OK during my trips to the dentist in
the southern part. But I'm switching to one closer, avoiding
Ann Arbor entirely.

 

[Secret Chief]

I'm not sure what traffic laws are over there

Red = Red. No move. Simples.

Americans can't get left in roundabouts

Not sure what you mean?