Right turn on red? With pedestrian deaths rising, US cities are considering bans

[anna.]

Slow down as you approach, come to a complete stop, check left and right, proceeds when clear, spike the brakes if someone is approaching the roundabout and again right before you exit.

Seems simple enough.

You're supposed to stop when you approach the roundabout? Surely not if the coast is clear?

 

[SalixIncendium]

You're supposed to stop when you approach the roundabout? Surely not if the coast is clear?

Then someone should tell the people I'm following into them.

 

[anna.]

Then someone should tell the people I'm following into them.

Oh, I missed the sarcasm entirely. Guess I'm okay then.

 

[Stevicus]

This is something one might see in lieu of roundabouts:

 

[Alien826]

Slow down as you approach, come to a complete stop, check left and right, proceeds when clear, spike the brakes if someone is approaching the roundabout and again right before you exit.

Seems simple enough.

Er, no. You don't come to a complete stop unless you have to. That's the point, it keeps traffic flowing. And you don't have to check left and right with equal attention (I'm using left and right as in the USA). There should be no traffic coming from the right as it would be going the wrong way round. About 90% of your attention to the left should be about it.

Observe the roundabout as you approach at safe speed (which is probably reduced from the what you were doing on before, but not so slow as to cause others to slow unnecessarily. If there is no other car on the section you are entering, maintain your speed and enter the roundabout. Only slow down or stop if the section to the left of your entry point is not clear. Continue to your desired exit point at a safe speed and exit there. Indicate as if you were entering a crossroads intersection, that is the direction you wish to go, not your direction relative to the roundabout. Switch to the opposite indicator as you get near your exit point. If you miss your exit point, just stay on the roundabout and go round again.

It's all observation and decision making while still moving and takes a lot of instruction and practice to perfect. Here's a video that gives a lot more detail. It is set in the UK so remember they are driving on the LEFT of the road!

 

[SalixIncendium]

Er, no. You don't come to a complete stop unless you have to. That's the point, it keeps traffic flowing. And you don't have to check left and right with equal attention (I'm using left and right as in the USA). There should be no traffic coming from the right as it would be going the wrong way round. About 90% of your attention to the left should be about it.

Observe the roundabout as you approach at safe speed (which is probably reduced from the what you were doing on before, but not so slow as to cause others to slow unnecessarily. If there is no other car on the section you are entering, maintain your speed and enter the roundabout. Only slow down or stop if the section to the left of your entry point is not clear. Continue to your desired exit point at a safe speed and exit there. Indicate as if you were entering a crossroads intersection, that is the direction you wish to go, not your direction relative to the roundabout. Switch to the opposite indicator as you get near your exit point. If you miss your exit point, just stay on the roundabout and go round again.

It's all observation and decision making while still moving and takes a lot of instruction and practice to perfect. Here's a video that gives a lot more detail. It is set in the UK so remember they are driving on the LEFT of the road!

My post was a tongue-in-cheek tutorial describing how many Americans actually negotiate roundabouts.

 

[Jainarayan]

NJ has done some pretty stupid things, and right-on-red was one of them. The law is that you come to a complete stop, and turn only if there is no traffic coming towards you.

• It does not mean cut off oncoming traffic.
• It does not mean roll through without stopping or slowing down.
• It does not mean turn right on red when opposite side traffic has a green turn arrow, and cutting off that oncoming traffic.
• It does not mean lean on your horn when the car in front of you is exercising due caution (i.e. obeying the law).

Do people obey those regulations? Take a good guess. Moreover, more often than not we see No Turn On Red signs. Kinda defeats the purpose, huh? Nope, not a fan of right-on-red.

 

[Jainarayan]

You're supposed to stop when you approach the roundabout? Surely not if the coast is clear?

In NJ there are a couple of scenarios depending on the location and traffic flow.

• Slow down or even stop coming onto a circle (roundabout).
• Traffic on the circle has the right-of-way.
• Traffic already on the roundabout yields to traffic entering. That one is really weird and dangerous in my opinion.

 

[Jainarayan]

This is something one might see in lieu of roundabouts:

Tbh that looks like the NJ Tpk interchange at 15W in Kearny NJ. It scared the bejeezus out of me when I drove it.

 

[Alien826]

My post was a tongue-in-cheek tutorial describing how many Americans actually negotiate roundabouts.

Oh! Sorry. Still it might have informed somebody?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Oh! Sorry. Still it might have informed somebody?

You're right.

 

[anna.]

This is something one might see in lieu of roundabouts:

Being from SoCal, that looks normal.

 

[anna.]

In NJ there are a couple of scenarios depending on the location and traffic flow.

• Slow down or even stop coming onto a circle (roundabout).
• Traffic on the circle has the right-of-way.
• Traffic already on the roundabout yields to traffic entering. That one is really weird and dangerous in my opinion.

If the traffic on the circle has the right of way, then why would the traffic on the circle yield to entering traffic?

 

[F1fan]

Right turn on red? With pedestrian deaths rising, US cities are considering bans

Almost every major city in the United States generally allows drivers to turn right at red lights, but that could be changing.

apnews.com

It does seem like overkill to make a blanket ban when there are so few accidents associated with right turns on red.

Right, because there are times when there is zero traffic coming, and the driver has to just wait for nothing? Waste of time, waste of gas, more congestion because traffic isn't moving, etc.

One quote from the article that I found interesting was this:



"Drivers should not have the option to decide for themselves when they think it’s safe"? Really?

Well, I guess the solution is AI. When can we humans just be immobile blobs in a chair that are plugged into some instruments so we don't have to move at all?

I can see it in high-density areas, where there's a lot of pedestrian traffic and visibility might be obstructed. But many other intersections are pretty clear and easy to see if it's safe to turn on red. I've done it plenty of times; it's simply a matter of looking for pedestrians and oncoming traffic. Occasionally someone might make a U-turn from the cross street, which one also has to watch out for.

Good point, I can see a ban in a city, but not everywhere.

Of course, I've also learned when I'm a pedestrian or on a bicycle to keep an eye out for cars making right turns on red (as well as cars in the opposite direction making left turns on green, as that's also a hazard).

I can say as a cyclist that a small segment of drivers have become more aggressive, and we have had more close calls than ever. More drivers taking chances that threaten our lives. Just today I was on a ride and an older woman was coming to a stop sign as I was entering an intersection and she looked down the road but did not see me until I was right next to her. I had to swing out by the center line, but man she was scared to death, and slammed on her brakes. I looked right in her eyes as I rode by. Great, that was exactly what I wanted her to feel. Maybe next time she will pay attention and look for bikes, not just cars.

Another thing that chimed with me in this article was "road infrastructure improvements would be a much more effective way to reduce accidents." That definitely seems to be where the problem lies. Improvements in public transportation would also help to relieve some of the traffic congestion. But instead of doing that, the politicians want to add more ordinances and give law enforcement more excuses to stop and pull people over - which can further exacerbate the already-tense relations between the police and the general public.

Do you think that banning right turn on red would improve traffic safety? Are there are other improvements in traffic safety which could be made?

I think those who are careless and already a threat will ignore these laws, as they will only be held accountable if the police see it. The only punishment is if they hit someone while turning on a red and get a ticket, which won't help the victim. Frankly I think more laws will just stress out these already stressed people more. The solution is helping these citizens destress and cope, meaning more mental health care access.

 

[Stevicus]

Well, I guess the solution is AI. When can we humans just be immobile blobs in a chair that are plugged into some instruments so we don't have to move at all?

Well, I hope that's not in our future, at least about the immobile blobs. But I've often considered the possibility of AI driving having the potential to be far more efficient and safe. If the AI can be integrated and coordinated centrally, the cars would all know where each other is going and would all be aware of when they're going to make lane changes, turns, etc. The traffic system would be a veritable symphony of harmony and precision.

Good point, I can see a ban in a city, but not everywhere.

I can say as a cyclist that a small segment of drivers have become more aggressive, and we have had more close calls than ever. More drivers taking chances that threaten our lives. Just today I was on a ride and an older woman was coming to a stop sign as I was entering an intersection and she looked down the road but did not see me until I was right next to her. I had to swing out by the center line, but man she was scared to death, and slammed on her brakes. I looked right in her eyes as I rode by. Great, that was exactly what I wanted her to feel. Maybe next time she will pay attention and look for bikes, not just cars.

We've had our share of bicycle accidents here, although a lot of motorcycle and pedestrian deaths as well. When I read local stories of pedestrian accidents, it's oftentimes at night on streets with poor lighting or no lighting at all. A driver may not be able to see them that quickly, especially if they're not in a crosswalk or if they're wearing dark clothing. Bicyclists usually have some kind of reflector and lights and are usually pretty visible, although it would also depend on road conditions, weather, etc. In the last couple of deadly motorcycle crashes I've heard recently, the drivers were going in excess of 100 mph down city streets (also at night).

I'll confess to being a bit of a leadfoot in my younger days, but I've mellowed out considerably in more recent years, keeping it more steady and safe, though not too slow. I just go with the flow and pretend like I know how to drive.

I think those who are careless and already a threat will ignore these laws, as they will only be held accountable if the police see it. The only punishment is if they hit someone while turning on a red and get a ticket, which won't help the victim. Frankly I think more laws will just stress out these already stressed people more. The solution is helping these citizens destress and cope, meaning more mental health care access.

I'm used to driving in rush hour traffic. It's not so bad where I'm living now, although I've been in quite a few LA freeway traffic jams - and many in other cities, too. I remember being on the freeway in the LA metro area, and a gas truck tipped over. Needless to say, we were stuck on the freeway for quite some time, but as we finally got past the wreck and the lanes were clear again, everyone just started zooming down the freeway at top speed, as if they were angry that they had to wait so long in a traffic jam.

But as you mention mental health care, it's interesting to consider the psychology of driving. I've read occasional articles touching on the subject, but it does appear to be a rather fascinating study in human behavior. Roads are supposed to be a shared resource for everyone to get to use, but once people get out there, it's like a series of mini territorial disputes over a certain square footage of asphalt. Of course, there are laws and rules that people are supposed to follow, but when they don't, it can raise other people's hackles.

One thing that always gets me is when I'm driving down a city street, and I see someone in the right lane decide that they have to make a left turn, cutting across three lanes of busy traffic to get to the left turn lane. I see this happen rather often, indicative of people who just don't pay attention, didn't know where they were going, and/or insufferably rude and disrespectful, with callous disregard to the safety of their fellow drivers. I tend to drive defensively, so I keep my eyes open for things like that, but a lot of drivers don't.

 

[Jainarayan]

If the traffic on the circle has the right of way, then why would the traffic on the circle yield to entering traffic?

It’s not universal. Different locations have different procedures.