Riots in LA and Temple Square over Prop 8

[Alizée]

You're actually getting a little mixed up with the comparison here.

It's true that one doesn't choose to be a woman or to be black. By the same token, one doesn't choose to be gay. As Elder Oaks put it, "Some kinds of feelings seem to be inborn. Others are traceable to mortal experiences. Still other feelings seem to be acquired from a complex interaction of 'nature and nurture.' All of us have some feelings we did not choose" (Ensign, Oct. 1995, "Same-Gender Attraction").

The stance of the Church is that homosexual attraction is not a choice. Homosexual behavior is, but homosexuality itself (like heterosexuality) is not.

Now, you're right that living a gay lifestyle is a choice. Homosexual behavior is chosen. And you're right that Prop 8 was about homosexual behavior rather than homosexual attraction.

But laws on blacks' rights and women's rights weren't about being black or being a woman. There has never been a law in America against being black or female. The laws have been against certain behaviors among blacks and females. You don't choose to be black, but you do choose to vote, or to use a certain drinking fountain, or to ride in a certain train car, or to attend a certain school. You don't choose to be a woman, but you do choose to vote, or to attempt to acquire property, or to enter a certain profession, or to get a divorce.

Movements for racial and sexual equality have never been about how the law views the issues that aren't a matter of choice. They've focussed on the issues that are a matter of choice. The question has always been this: should people in one unchosen category be free to choose behaviors that we allow of people in a corresponding unchosen category?

Since we know from our Church leaders that homosexuality is an unchosen category, it's perfectly legitimate to compare issues like Prop 8 to movements for racial or sexual equality.

Great post!:clap

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Society isn't an insect colony.

That's my point. Edit: You're the one who wants to live in an egalitarian or ant-like society.

That... well, that is simply not possible; acceptance of same sex marriage will happen.

Maybe, but nature is in ultimate control.

But what I want to know is what exactly do you mean with this talk of "nature doesn't need to be encumbered by homosexuals". Since homosexuals do exist and in fact can't help but be what they are, it would seem that nature isn't trying to avoid homosexuality, thank you very much.

Nature is in ultimate control, but it is also ruthlessly practical.

Besides, homosexuals are hardly an encumbrance. If anything, they are advantageous to society, since they are active citizens that in fact have their offspring with much more care and planning than other people.

I did not mean to sound as though I was disparaging the contribution homosexuals make to society, but last time I checked, homosexual couples don't have "offspring" as the natural result of their union. As for not being an encumbrance you are right, but only so long as they don't try to compel acceptance of their lifestyle on the community.

Believe it or not, the majority has rights, too.

 

[LuisDantas]

RS, I can't help but wonder if you are serious.

 

[Father Heathen]

Ok, this argument is a lot more complex than "animals exhibit homosexual behavior". Animals do not, to my knowledge, exhibit homosexual behavior in the same sense as homosexual humans. Animals display bisexual behavior. I have yet to hear of animals who enter into stricly homosexual relationships. Such a behavior would be a sure sign of imminent extinction.

How would a handful of specimens being homosexual cause the entire species to go extinct? I can't believe people are still trying to use that retarded argument.

 

[Father Heathen]

Maybe, but nature is in ultimate control.

And yet your rigid, ritualistic religious views are directly contrary to nature.

homosexual couples don't have "offspring"

Which is a good thing. Last time I checked the human population wasn't exactly dwindling. We already have a dire baby surplus as it is.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

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[deseretgov]

I'm curious why people are protesting on Temple square. Prop 8 has nothing to do with Utah law. It's for California.

I'd also like to point out that homosexuals already have the same rights as heterosexuals with civil unions. It has been repeated by homosexuals that their goal is not the protection of their right but to force other states to recognize their marriage.

My disagreement with homosexuality is based in defense of my rights. The acceptance of homosexuality would be a violation of my rights.

But no i wasn't active in any Pro-prop 8 action becasue I live in Idaho. This was a California law. Now if something like this would happen in Idaho then yes I probably get active, in defense of my rights.

 

[Alizée]

Let me point out.

These weren't riots, they were protests. There is a BIG difference.

 

[deseretgov]

Let me point out.

These weren't riots, they were protests. There is a BIG difference.

You're right. My mistake. I was thinking of the thread title. I'll change my post.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

 

[Green Gaia]

I'd also like to point out that homosexuals already have the same rights as heterosexuals with civil unions.

Civil unions do not give the same rights as marriage. But this isn't the thread/forum to educate you on that distinction. If you would like to learn the truth, I'd be happy to make that available to you elsewhere on the forum.

 

[deseretgov]

Civil unions do not give the same rights as marriage. But this isn't the thread/forum to educate you on that distinction. If you would like to learn the truth, I'd be happy to make that available to you elsewhere on the forum.

If you start the thread I'm sure many of us would enjoy stopping by.

 

[Green Gaia]

If you start the thread I'm sure many of us would enjoy stopping by.

Civil Unions: Separate and Unequal