Romans 6:23

[savagewind]

I think you @David T are saying that to speak the language of the people you are talking to isn't the wise way to do it. Am I right?

 

[David T]

I think you @David T are saying that to speak the language of the people you are talking to isn't the wise way to do it. Am I right?

Absolutely. To take a side step analogy for a moment. a topic can be both true and totally not understood. So say two people were arguing about coconuts landing all around then. One proclaims "it's mana from the gods" the other proclaims " they just self organize and appear randomly. both are in the identical conceptual framework. A third person walks by says look up they both agree he's crazy because both have the identical lack of capacity to look up. They mutually agree he is crazy and they go back to arguing.

Do not depend on religions innate tendency to read in the science fashion it does. We can see it's not a science text it's not a science text as many charlatans in religion claim it to be. Not everyone is a crazy sucker for charlatans in religion but idefinitely is is profoundly dysfunctional today. Its because they are normal.

Its that way of perceiving that is what is dysfunctional, it's modern, it's culture it's how we are raised taught etc it's very normal. Artists are not totally normal that's why I posted Dylan.

 

[savagewind]

Explain how we are communicating Science, please. @David T

 

[savagewind]

I am sure that we are are debating is context.

They see, spirit...spirit....spirit.....spirt.....physical.....spirit....spirit

I am arguing for keeping the train of thought consistent.

Like this: spirit...spirit....spirit.....spirt.....spirit....spirit....spirit

 

[savagewind]

But, I really and truly appreciate the humor. Thank you @David T

 

[savagewind]

Believe what you will, but the Bible was thought before it was ever written down. Most people think (or I would like to think so) in whole thoughts. Unless, of course, they are arguing with their spouses.

 

[Apologetics]

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It just means that when a person keeps on sinning for sinning's sake (because every one of us misses the mark, and we do that often) he won't get paid with the good and perfect presents from Jehovah. What he will get is death. Heads up! We all get that. So, because we all die then the natural death is not what Romans 6:23 means.

17 Every good gift and every perfect present is from above,+ coming down from the Father of the celestial lights,+

If you leave the path of sinning (though you still will sin) you will be rewarded for your earnest effort. God is building. 1 Corinthians 3:9

Now, I might be wrong (sinning) about my contention here that it doesn't mean that God has a building (noun), but the God is building (verb).

Your Correct Rome 6:23 is not talking about a natural death just like Rome 8:13 isnt talking about a natural death.Like you obviously have pointed out we all know we will die. But Paul is revealing that the rewards of unrighteousness whether believer or non believer is ETERNAL DEATH. Math 16:27 Jesus said he reward every man according to his works again Rev 2:23 I will give to everyone according to his works again rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

So we see here that scripture plainly,clearly states that everyone will be rewarded by how weve lived our lives. Those of us who have continued to live foolishly ,disobedient, deceived,serving different lust and pleasures,living in malice envy hateful hating one another Titus 3:3 get eternal death Rom 8:13 Rom 6:23.

Those of us who have over come foolishly ,disobedient, deceived,serving different lust and pleasures,living in malice envy hateful hating one another ect. Who are Blameless, faultless, spotless, without rebuke,Holy without blame,before God in Love Eph 1:4 Eph 5:27 Col 1:22 1 thess 3:13 1 thess 5:23 Phil 2:15 2 Pet 3:14

Get Eternal Life Rom 6:22 ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

 

[Apologetics]

I understand that sin leads to death, but naturally. Nobody in their right mind can call it "a wage". A wage is a reward for work. Death isn't a reward. Not usually, anyway.

I am sure that the writer meant that there would be no wage, in other words, death.
Life for following The Way. Death for not. The wage of following the way is truth and life. But, for following the way of sinning, there is no wage.

The poor thing. He was just contrasting them.

The term wages is like many words used in the bible Its a fiqure of speech it doesnt mean physical money like gold and silver in this passage. Like Land that flows with milk and honey. Pauls said he robbed churches Ect.

Wage is a reward that someone has earned. In Gods plan of salvation Those of us who lived foolishly ,disobedient, deceived,serving different lust and pleasures,living in malice envy hateful hating one another Titus 3:3 Have earned /Wages eternal death Rom 8:13 Rom 6:23. Thats what the writer in conveying

Wages just means you have done some work and are now entitle to the rewards of what you have earned.

Math 16:27 Jesus said he reward every man according to his works again Rev 2:23 I will give to everyone according to his works again rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

If we have lived in rebellion according to th eworks of the flesh Gal 5:19 against gods Laws weve earned eternal death

If we have lived according to Gods Laws we ve earner eternal life.

 

[savagewind]

The term wages is like many words used in the bible Its a fiqure of speech it doesnt mean physical money like gold and silver in this passage. Like Land that flows with milk and honey. Pauls said he robbed churches Ect.

Wage is a reward that someone has earned. In Gods plan of salvation Those of us who lived foolishly ,disobedient, deceived,serving different lust and pleasures,living in malice envy hateful hating one another Titus 3:3 Have earned /Wages eternal death Rom 8:13 Rom 6:23. Thats what the writer in conveying

Wages just means you have done some work and are now entitle to the rewards of what you have earned.

Math 16:27 Jesus said he reward every man according to his works again Rev 2:23 I will give to everyone according to his works again rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

If we have lived in rebellion according to th eworks of the flesh Gal 5:19 against gods Laws weve earned eternal death

If we have lived according to Gods Laws we ve earner eternal life.

Strong's Greek: 3800. ὀψώνιον (opsónion) -- provisions, wages Wages
opsónion: provisions, wages
Original Word: ὀψώνιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: opsónion
Phonetic Spelling: (op-so'-nee-on)
Short Definition: pay, wages
Definition: pay, wages, salary, reward.

 

[savagewind]

Why would anyone call the physical death because of sin a person's reward?

 

[Apologetics]

Why would anyone call the physical death because of sin a person's reward?

Your thinking in earthly terms such as a promotion, a deposit of money. receiving an award for outstanding performance.
Look at Rome 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

You see here the term worthy of death. Thats means that in Gods eyes they have earned death. Because they broke his laws.And so rewarded with death.Due 32:39 I kill and make alive. In other words God views their behavior as not being worthy to live.. Just as in any nation when one breaks the laws of that nation there are consequences. So a judge will determine the proper punishment/reward for the behavior. Sometimes that is the reward or punishment of Death by hanging or electric chair or firing squad usually for rape or murder.

In the end because of the persons behavior

 

[Mark La Buda]

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It just means that when a person keeps on sinning for sinning's sake (because every one of us misses the mark, and we do that often) he won't get paid with the good and perfect presents from Jehovah. What he will get is death. Heads up! We all get that. So, because we all die then the natural death is not what Romans 6:23 means.

17 Every good gift and every perfect present is from above,+ coming down from the Father of the celestial lights,+

If you leave the path of sinning (though you still will sin) you will be rewarded for your earnest effort. God is building. 1 Corinthians 3:9

Now, I might be wrong (sinning) about my contention here that it doesn't mean that God has a building (noun), but the God is building (verb).

Yes, death is the "wages" or penalty for sin and nothing more to include the belief in "Hell, hellfire, purgatory" and so forth.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Right, Jesus is supposed to have been sinless but yet died on the cross. What were the wages of sin that killed Jesus?

Um….it wasn’t sin; it was Roman soldiers.

 

[savagewind]

What a wonderful world this is!

The problem though is...to love it or to hate it!

 

[abbabdon]

for those who fall under 1 Cor 2:15 sin is "an error of the understanding" (Strong's)
for those who fall under 1 Cor 2:14 sin is a transgression.
so for 1 Cor 2 :15 Christ Jesus removes ignorance.
for 1 Cor 2 :14 Jesus Christ removes transgressions by His Blood.
important side of removal of ignorance - enlightenment is "might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives." ( Heb 2:15)
Death for 1 Cor 2:14 is physical death and resurrection is return of physical being,
for 1 Cor 2:15 death is non existent because we are spiritual entities and resurrection mean transition from spiritually dead to spiritual life - from first Adam to Christ.

 

[abbabdon]

The final resurrection is at the end of 1000y new jerusalem where yes, every man from adam to the last man born will arise to judgment, but the first is before the holy city at the end of the 7y trib. The holy city is led by the one with the iron sceptre, abbaton who has keys to the pit and death and hades, together with christ they have 24 elders and rule the holy city, and are to the right n left of the father the lord of hosts adonai sabaoth as both the son of man and the ancient of days. Gog and magog go to battle after the 1000yr, first res at the time of casting into the lake of beast and false prophet, just after elect gather at armaggeddon.