Rome vs Greece

[VioletVortex]

Which was the superior civilization?

I think that ancient Greece was superior to the Roman Empire for one central reason. Rome was an empire. It was a local government with hold on land that belonged to other peoples. At its height, it had consumed almost all of Germanic Europe, a large portion of the Middle and Near East, a large part of North Africa, and the areas of Eastern Europe that weren't under Uralic rule. I will go as far as to say that many of tne troubles plaguing the modern world can be traced back to the Roman Empire, specifically it's irresponsible decision to get involved with the Middle East and it's affairs.

Greece on the other hand, was an isolated civilization. They did broaden their cultural horizons during the Hellenistic period, which is okay in moderation, but for the most part, they maintained and cared for their homeland without infringing on the rights of others. They were also more technologically and intellectually advanced, and their people generally had a better philosophical mentality as a whole.

 

[sayak83]

Decide after listening to this
Greece vs Rome, with Boris Johnson and Mary Beard : Intelligence Squared

 

[blü 2]

The Greeks were violent, randy and militarized and lived in various autonomous towns.

They set standards (even to this day) for, and systematically set down the basics of, poetry, drama, philosophy, interesting gods, politics, architecture, sculpture and painting, protomedicine, geometry, and speculative and field science, and briefly conquered the known world. They were generally amazing.

Think Homer, Sappho, Sophocles, Plato, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Aphrodite, Dionysos, Praxiteles, Herodotus, Archimedes, Galen, Alexander, Demosthenes, Solon ...

The Romans were violent, randy and militarized, but not as publicly randy as the Greeks, and lived in one city and a number of subject towns.

We remember them for organizing armies, empires and roads, devising better plumbing and sewers, draining swamps, inventing concrete that sets under water, having a language that seeded many of the languages of Europe (French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian and dozens of intermediate dialects) and still survives as Church Latin, and for the Colosseum, loonies like Nero and Caligula, and producing numerous poor imitations of Greek poetry, sculpture, drama, and philosophy, though they put the arch in architecture.

Both of them did things enormously important to the shape of Europe, hence in due course the shape of the Americas, and the British and other empires around the globe.

I vote [1] the Greeks for their thinking. But it's hard to begrudge the Romans credit for their doing.

 

[Augustus]

Greece on the other hand, was an isolated civilization. They did broaden their cultural horizons during the Hellenistic period, which is okay in moderation, but for the most part, they maintained and cared for their homeland without infringing on the rights of others.

Alexander the Great was pretty big on conquering. His empire fragmented on his death though, with different regions going to different generals.

Greek dynasties ruled many places as a result, most famously the Ptolemys in Egypt.

I will go as far as to say that many of tne troubles plaguing the modern world can be traced back to the Roman Empire, specifically it's irresponsible decision to get involved with the Middle East and it's affairs.

You are thinking of a modern political geography that never existed back then.

There was a civilisation organised around the Mediterranean, there was no 'Europe' or 'Middle East' which only really started to develop their identities after the Arab conquests.

While we think of the ME being full of Arabs today, this is a linguistic category that resulted from imperialism more than an ethnicity. Even today, many 'Arabs' (especially in the Levant) are basically the same as 'Greeks' and 'Turks'.

The ME was far closer to Rome than Northern Europe was, both in terms of accessibility and culture so it makes no sense to view what happens now through the lens of Roman imperialism. The starting divide was Arab/Muslim imperialism.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's a boring question, but how are you defining 'great'?
I would say the Greeks were more original, the Romans more organised...
Not a massive call, I know, but I'm very interested in classical history, and even trying to work out what a Greek or Roman IS seems enough of a challenge!!

 

[bobhikes]

The Roman empire still exists today, Roman catholic church. All religions are politicized and Roman had early hands in the church. The church is more Roman than christian, hence the name.

 

[Polymath257]

Were the Byzantines Greek or Roman?

The Greeks created philosophy and distributed it to the world. They started thinking scientifically and mathematically. They stood up to a world power (Persia) and won, although Persia persisted. Alexander conquered a huge area, brining East and West together, but died before solidifying the bond. Squabblling amongst themselves made the Greeks weak when they needed to defined themselves against Rome. Nonetheless, much of their culture persisted through the Roman overlordship.

The Romans created roads and aqueducts. They stood up to a world power (Carthage) and won, destroying their opponent. They then dissolved into a military dictatorship that lasted centuries and were overcome by a foreign religion. They ruled the Mediterranean. Their culture persisted in many ways. Many of their rulers were cruel and/or insane.

I'm going with the Greeks, but nodding to the Romans.

 

[Altfish]

Trump could learn off the Romans...they built a wall!

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

As a primarily Hellenist-oriented Pagan, nobody will surprise that I'm coming out to bat for the Greeks. Rome is a fascinating culture but ultimately ended up pick-and-mixing from Greek culture. Philosophy? Out - too un-Roman (except Stoicism)! Greek gods? In - we'll just super-impose their gods on ours and say they're separate. Bacchanalia? Out - too freeing and un-Roman!

The Greeks gave us philsophy, reason, logic, theatre and so much more. But most importantly; they gave us Dionysus! Euoi!!

 

[blü 2]

Were the Byzantines Greek or Roman?

I'd say Greek, and certainly more Greek than Roman. Greek language, Greek gods and then Greek version of Christianity, culturally eastern all the way through.

 

[Polymath257]

I'd say Greek, and certainly more Greek than Roman. Greek language, Greek gods and then Greek version of Christianity, culturally eastern all the way through.

Government was Roman, they called themselves Roman, Institutions were Roman, founded by a Roman, not founded on city-states.


BTW, I would also put them as Greek, but they were a strange mix.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Government was Roman, they called themselves Roman, Institutions were Roman, founded by a Roman, not founded on city-states.


BTW, I would also put them as Greek, but they were a strange mix.

Byzantion was founded centuries before the formation of the Roman Republic by colonists from the Greek polis of Megara.

 

[garden47]

Greece was composed a several city states while Rome was a unified Empire.

Ancient Greece's contributions in philosophy, civics, architecture, sports, language and mathematics surpassed their Roman counterparts!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The church is more Roman than christian, hence the name

The hell?

 

[DavidFirth]

Neither. They were both managed in sin by sinners, thus their downfall.

 

[garden47]

The Roman empire still exists today, Roman catholic church. All religions are politicized and Roman had early hands in the church. The church is more Roman than christian, hence the name.

Emperor Constantine moved the Roman capital to Constantinople in 330
AD which eventually led to 2 Empires and 2 Christian Churches - Orthodox, Roman Catholic!

While Rome was occupied by a succession of invaders, Constantinople (Istanbul) remained secure until 1453 - when it fell to the Muslims.

The irony is that the combined Roman/Byzantium armies might have defeated the Muslims and curtailed their expansion, but the hostility that existed between the 2 Christian Churches precluded such cooperative efforts against a common enemy!

 

[blü 2]

Constantinople (Istanbul) remained secure until 1453 - when it fell to the Muslims.

The irony is that the combined Roman/Byzantium armies might have defeated the Muslims and curtailed their expansion, but the hostility that existed between the 2 Christian Churches precluded such cooperative efforts against a common enemy!

It was the Westerners of the Roman Church who sacked Constantinople in 1204.

How to win friends and influence people.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Voted for Rome.

 

[Hildeburh]

"(Rome) . At its height, it had consumed almost all of Germanic Europe"

Nope. The Romano- Germanic Wars were many and varied over a long period of time and Rome was never able to conquer and hold Germania. Ultimately conflicts with Germanic tribes, added to internal weaknesses in the Western Roman Empire, lead to the fall of the Western Roman Empire and death of the last Roman Emporer at the hands of the Germanic leader Odoacer.