And that means, people who are claimed to be humanists, are not. So, I was wrong about who are humanists, not any of those who rule the world. Thanks for the correction. But, this obviously leads to question, how did we get the good things that are credited to humanists, if they are not really humanists who rule the world?
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Ruining Humanity
- Thread starter The Hammer
- Start date
You don't know what humanism is even after I explained it to you. The god of Abraham is antithetical to humanism, and humanism is a reaction to ideologies of faith and received "wisdom" that demean man and nature. The god of the Old Testament, who is said to have created Satan and hell is no friend of humanity.
You also don't understand what utilitarianism is, nor do you have any interest in correcting that. The moral theory that can be used to justify any atrocity is the one Christians use - divine command theory - wherein anything the deity is believed to have said or done becomes moral for that reason alone, and disobedience of any command is punishable by that deity. This sentence is true to such a person however one completes it: "If God says to [any action], then it is good to do that and sin to disobey."
That's incorrect. It existed long before any alleged communication from the god of Abraham.
Nature made all people and other animals free, some of which have invented religions that enslave minds, while some live outside such systems.
You said: "Humanism is about facilitating human needs and opportunities". God has facilitated needs and opportunities, so He must be a humanist.
According to Wikipedia: utilitarianism is a family of normative ethical theories that prescribe actions that maximize happiness and well-being for all affected individuals.
Utilitarianism - Wikipedia
That can be used to justify all atrocities of humans. And you could say people would then have misused it. But then the same could be said also about every atrocity done in the name of Christianity.
How?
By giving everything people have and teachings of how to live well.
Everything I have (had) I've earned (and have since given away). Everything I've learned to live well I learned through experience.
Can you give me specifics on how God facilitated my needs and opportunities? Or did you mean all people except me?
Right but why is revelation such big deal?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Well, I looked at your post. You may consider this relevant (maybe not), but I used to be a hippie and iconoclast years ago.
Then I had to leave the hippie world and had to go to work, etc., at a more or less normal job. Just so you know a little bit about my background. As I said I won't go into detail but I am glad I learned about the Bible what I learned and I am sticking with it because it's the best thing that happened to me. What this means is that I realize without doubt, reviewing my classes in history and such, the world has been in a mess, a terrible mess, for...um...millenia, and I'm glad to know it. The Bible says there is a new earth coming, and righteousness is to be there.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
OK, the prospect of death does not please me. I can't do away with it. It's there.
I appreciate the insights, and learning a bit about you. I went the opposite, I went and worked for 12 years. 10 of it in the military. I then separated and went back to college. I myself have more or less been a "hippy" through it all. Iconoclast, not particularly, but some things irk me about some religious attitudes.
Where I disagree is this part of the post I quoted from you. That may work for you. But that's not where I see things heading. That's a utopian idea and not very pragmatic. I'm more concerned with fixing this earth. Not some far off "new one", but by focusing on problems Now.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Because it comes from a Prophet/Messenger of God.
Baha'is believe that is how we get communication from God regarding God's will for humanity.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is the Baha'i view.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
To be more accurate, it comes from someone YOU BELIEVE to be a messenger of God. Belief doesn't make it a fact.
Branch Davidians believed that Koresh was more than a prophet, was a "true manifestation of Christ." Boy were they wrong.
Seems too liable to be manipulative as all people are. I'll take my guidance directly.
I'm glad this works for you and other Baha'is. I prefer direct contact without an intermediary.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
oh oh oh, thank you for sharing. The new earth the Bible talks about, yes, it's spoken about in the Bible for a long time -- but -- I believe it's closer than ever. I know many have spoken about the "End" for a long time now. Nevertheless...
Now insofar as trying to fix it! I don't want to sound pessimistic, how about realistic. If you live in the United States, you see the (ridiculous) disunity among governmental figures as well as the 'people.' (People threatening one another -- killing over disputes -- it isn't good.) I won't get into politics but I have found applying Bible principle to my life is life-changing and -- life-saving. ttyl, thank you for sharing with me.
P.S. I understand how some religious attitudes can be distressing. later maybe about that --
Again.
I am glad that that book provides you the thread of guidance you need to walk.
My path has always been my own
.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
And that is why I said "Baha'is believe..."
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Not to belabor it, I'm not looking forward to death. But yes, I know it's possibly around the corner so to speak. I did everything possible before I turned to God in earnest that wouldn't kill me outright. Looking back, lost. I asked for help (wisdom) from pastors and other clergy. Psychologists, etc. Found nothing. Until I finally turned to God. If we pass through that 'gate,' and attain to life, I hope to see you there.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I am learning more -- and I don't want to walk on a wild path.Again.
I am glad that that book provides you the thread of guidance you need to walk.
My path has always been my own
I have learned to be honest -- I am not taking drugs -- God has helped me by following the path set out in the Bible -- I have learned to be faithful to my marriage mate and to God -- not to lie -- among other good things that knowing the Bible more has helped me. It offers me a hope that although I sang in churches as a professional singer, read books about religion and more -- I really do believe now that the Bible is the word of God, however it's presented, and I also know there are problematic situations described in the Bible. Yet I appreciate very much what I've learned and having a relationship with God. The God that "I" know -- not someone that tortures bad people, etc. Live and learn hopefully. Take care...