Rumsfeld the 'Eagle' pledges support for Boy Scouts

[Scuba Pete]

An even BIGGER issue to me is the exclusion of girls by the Scouts. ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH! Especially from the OA. If you go to www.ScubaDucks.com you can see my crew. Now crews ARE coed, and they are great. My crew is mostly female, though we get some guys in now and again. These girls have NEVER had the opportunity to do the FUN outdoors things. Summer before last we did about a hundred miles on the Suwannee River. We would have doubled that EASILY if it weren't for the boys! My girls are better campers than most boys I have seen and they are W-A-Y tougher. Better planners too. Yet the Order of the Arrow (Scout Camping Honor Society) won't let them in! Now once they become adults, they can be nominated and accepted, but not before. As one of my favorite preachers used to say... "Brethren, this ought not to be!"

 

[retrorich]

An even BIGGER issue to me is the exclusion of girls by the Scouts.

Can't they join the Girl Scouts?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Sure, and lets let the blacks attend their own schools while we are at it.

They have the right to exclude girls, but morally I find it offensive and not ethical.

 

[retrorich]

Sure, and lets let the blacks attend their own schools while we are at it.

They have the right to exclude girls, but morally I find it offensive and not ethical.

Yeah...kind of a case of separate but NOT equal. Do Girl Scouts have to take a pledge involving God?

 

[Scuba Pete]

The Girl Scout pledge is:

On my honor I will try,
​

to do my best,
​

To serve GOD and my community,
​

and to live by the Girl Scout Law.
​

 

[retrorich]

Thanks! It's similar to the Boy Scout pledge.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

NetDoc-- Do the Scouts define "God"? (Is it specifically the Judeo-Christian-Islamic god?)

If not, I actually don't see a problem with it. Even atheists and agnostics believe in the god of pantheists.

 

[Scuba Pete]

The Girl Scout Law

I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.

 

[Scuba Pete]

They do not define God. They only ask that you believe in one.

 

[Scuba Pete]

You don't have to belong to any religion either.

The Cub Scouts refer to God as an "Akela" or someone who protects and teaches them.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Here it is, in it's entirety...
The following policy is for members of the BSA, that is the participants of programs within the BSA Scouting organization: Cubs, Scouts, Sea Scouts, Varsity & Venturing. From the BSA National Executive Board, June 12, 1991:

Reaffirmation of the Position of the Boy Scouts of America on Duty to God.

• 
  Be it resolved that the following reaffirmation of the position of the Boy Scouts of America relating to the duty to God be, and hereby is, enacted that the bylaws, rules and regulations, and literature of the Corporation reflect this reaffirmation accordingly.
  
  In 1985, America celebrated the seventy-fifth anniversary of the Boy Scouts of America. Since 1910, eighty million Americans have subscribed to the Scout Oath and the Scout Law, which have stood the test of time.
  
  The National Executive Board of the BSA proudly states, through its mission statement, that the values which the organization strives to instill in young people are those based upon the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. A Scout pledges: "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law...."
  
  The first Boy Scouts of America *Handbook for Boys*, published in August 1911, declares that "..no boy can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God." (page 215)
  
  The latest edition of the Boy Scout Handbook, published in 1990, reads: "A scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others." (page 561)
  
  While not intending to define what constitutes belief in God, the Boy Scouts of America is proud to reaffirm the Scout Oath and its declaration of duty to God.
  
  The following statements are additional information on the BSA position:
  
  The Boy Scouts of America has always been committed to the moral, ethical, and spiritual development of our youth. Scouting is not a religion, but duty to God is a basic tenet of the Scout Oath and Law.
  
  Scouting does not seek to impose its beliefs upon others who do not share them. Virtually every religion is represented in Scouting, and the BSA does not define or interpret God. That is the role of the Scout's family and religious advisors. Scouting respects those who do not share its beliefs and it would not ask others to alter their faith in any fashion in order to become Scouts. They too are free to follow their own beliefs. Rather, the BSA membership believes that the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law are central to the BSA goal of teaching the values of self-reliance, courage, integrity, and consideration to others. Scouting may not be for everyone, but for eight decades, Scouting has provided meaningful programs and adventure to more than eighty million young people in the United States.

 

[retrorich]

NetDoc-- Do the Scouts define "God"? (Is it specifically the Judeo-Christian-Islamic god?)

If not, I actually don't see a problem with it. Even atheists and agnostics believe in the god of pantheists.

What is "the god of pantheists"? Idon't believe in ANY gods.

 

[robtex]

Netdoc in regards to the statement in your post, "Scouting does not seek to impose its belief upon others who do not share them."

I would like to ask what happened with Darrell Lambert ?

While they do accept muslims and hindus but if you are not aware they expelled atheist Darrlell Lambert in the state of Washington from troop 1531 for failure to change his beliefs from atheism to theism. He was given a week to believe in God before he was expelled.

www.inclusivescouting.net/bsa/cases/lambert
www.msu.edu/~msufa/darrell.html

they are partially publically funded which should require them to adhere to seperation of church and state principles.
www.religioustolerance.org/bsa_1.htm

 

[Scuba Pete]

Uh...

The blue text are not my words.

Don't ask me to defend someone elses' verbage.

I can't avow what happened or didn't happen in any other council but my own. Even then, I am not the "one" in charge. Every troop is chartered by an orginization. They legally and actually OWN the troop. I would suspect that this originated from the CO rather than the council, but the council would abide by the wishes of the CO.

If it were up to me, I would not distinguish between theist/non-theist and I would write that into the By-Laws. I am sure there are MORE than just that Scout who are agnostic/athiestic but say nothing because of BSA's method of pruning with a shovel.

 

[Scuba Pete]

In reality, I was pretty much agnostic growing up in a UU church. However, my Boy Scout Troop was sponsored by a Catholic church. Many thought me to be athiestic because of those "hard questions" I would ask and in the way I would reject their answers. My mother was asked to talk to me about asking the other boys why they hated ___________ (<=fill in your oppressed minority here). They also took a dim view of me protesting the Vietnam war in my Scout Uniform (and in a coffin to boot).

 

[Mr Spinkles]

What is "the god of pantheists"? Idon't believe in ANY gods.

I'm fairly confident that you do indeed beleive in some gods. For example, the god of pantheists is fully equivalent to nature itself. If you believe in nature, you believe in their 'god'.

NetDoc-- Do the Scouts define this 'god'?

 

[Scuba Pete]

They do not.

 

[retrorich]

I'm fairly confident that you do indeed beleive in some gods. For example, the god of pantheists is fully equivalent to nature itself. If you believe in nature, you believe in their 'god'.?

I''m sorry, I don't follow your reasoning. A "god" is a supernatural being. Nature is not supernatural. If it were, it would qualify as an oxymoron.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

No, "god" can be anything you want it to be, just like "kwyjibo". Some definitions are just more common than others.

 

[retrorich]

No, "god" can be anything you want it to be, just like "kwyjibo". Some definitions are just more common than others.

God can be a martini? I'll drink to that!