Sacred Name Movement?

[Gaura Priya]

First, a nice praise and worship song:

[youtube]Cq7rqqLhRM0[/youtube]
Praise YaHuWaH - YouTube

What do you all think of the Sacred Name movement? As much as I agree that the Tetragrammaton should be used in daily worship, I feel that they also seem to harbour alot of closed mentality. They are a strange group of organisations.

They seem to only be united by the importance of the Tetragrammaton (calling God as Yehowah, Yehovah, Yahuwah, Yahuvah, Yahwah, YHWH, etc. and Yehoshua, Yahshuwa, Yehshua, etc.) Otherwise they differe depending on the group. Some follow much of Jewish custom, and others do not. Some believe in the Trinity, others take on a variation of Arian theology. All of them seem to foster a strong us versus the rest of Christianity and the world's religions mentality.

I love Jehovah... according to my Vaishnava theology, the utilisation of the name of God has utmost importance... simultaneously, God's name has become used as a force of religious dogmatism. :/

 

[Pegg]

you might like this clip...it shows just how widely known Gods personal name is

[youtube]-XyaF6abm5o[/youtube]
Gods name around the world

 

[Gaura Priya]

you might like this clip...it shows just how widely known Gods personal name is

[youtube]-XyaF6abm5o[/youtube]
Gods name around the world

Thanks for the clip, Pegg! n__n I've watched this clip hundreds of times already... it's the reason why I am convinced that Jehovah's name is a real fact in the Bible. Especially with the existence of the Karaites, as well as the many Biblical patriarchs shamelessly praising and lamenting in Jehovah's name, it's hard to imagine that a once-utilised custom became buried in Jewish esoterism.

 

[Pegg]

Thanks for the clip, Pegg! n__n I've watched this clip hundreds of times already... it's the reason why I am convinced that Jehovah's name is a real fact in the Bible. Especially with the existence of the Karaites, as well as the many Biblical patriarchs shamelessly praising and lamenting in Jehovah's name, it's hard to imagine that a once-utilised custom became buried in Jewish esoterism.

it is the most highest name in the universe and one that all people will have to know. Its great that you have come to know his name even though you are of a completely different path.

The jews still know Gods name, but do not use it. They replaced it with Adonai/Lord a very long time ago which is sad. But they still know what the tetragrammaton is. Im not sure anyone really knows how the superstition arose over why they stopped pronouncing Gods name...but we can be absolutely certain that Jesus used Gods name for he said "I have made your name known"and he taught people to pray that Gods name be sanctified in all the earth. So he obviously didnt fear to pronounce Gods name to his followers or teach them to use it.

that would explain why there are so many christian monuments with the name of God featured prominently.


and i loved that song btw, very nice. I see he has more of them on you tube...i'll have to check them out.

 

[JacobEzra.]

What is the actual pronunciation of the name? It is not even known. There are many vowels that can go in between YHVH.

 

[Pegg]

What is the actual pronunciation of the name? It is not even known. There are many vowels that can go in between YHVH.

thats correct, no one knows the correct pronunciation.

the way it is written as Jehovah is the oldest known christian rendering...hence why we use it.

i'll hunt around for some more detailed information on the pronunciation and how we know early christians used his name.

 

[Gaura Priya]

it is the most highest name in the universe and one that all people will have to know. Its great that you have come to know his name even though you are of a completely different path.

The jews still know Gods name, but do not use it. They replaced it with Adonai/Lord a very long time ago which is sad. But they still know what the tetragrammaton is. Im not sure anyone really knows how the superstition arose over why they stopped pronouncing Gods name...but we can be absolutely certain that Jesus used Gods name for he said "I have made your name known"and he taught people to pray that Gods name be sanctified in all the earth. So he obviously didnt fear to pronounce Gods name to his followers or teach them to use it.

that would explain why there are so many christian monuments with the name of God featured prominently.


and i loved that song btw, very nice. I see he has more of them on you tube...i'll have to check them out.

The difference with Sacred Namers and Messianics is that Sacred Namers insist that God's Name should be used, generally in its Hebraic derivative, and not all of them follow Jewish customs such as celebrating Jewish festivals, but many do.

They say that the usage of non-Hebreic versions of names, such as Jesus, is related to the name 'Zeus' and using 'Lord' is calling on Ba'al ('lord'). I think this is rather silly, superstitious, and just plain weird.

 

[Gaura Priya]

[youtube]zR4YCJq4cew[/youtube]
Sacred Namer - YouTube

I swear, a Bible could bounce on them bellies... XD

They have alot of similarities to Jehovah's Witnesses, actually... at least at the forefront!

 

[Pegg]

The difference with Sacred Namers and Messianics is that Sacred Namers insist that God's Name should be used, generally in its Hebraic derivative, and not all of them follow Jewish customs such as celebrating Jewish festivals, but many do.

They say that the usage of non-Hebreic versions of names, such as Jesus, is related to the name 'Zeus' and using 'Lord' is calling on Ba'al ('lord'). I think this is rather silly, superstitious, and just plain weird.

yeah i think it is a bit of superstition coming into play because 'Jesus' is an english rendering...that is how Yeshua is translated into english. Im sure Jesus doesnt mind being called Yeshuah or Jesus...or if you are greek you might pronounce it Isous. We all know who the name refers to. It is the same with Gods name. If we call him Yahweh, or Yeho‧wah or Jehovah or the abbrviated name of God, Jah...it is still referring to him.

I knew an old lady who for years could not pronounce my name...she called me Brondo and that is not my name but I always knew she was addressing me or talking about me when she used it... and i wasnt offended that she couldn't pronounce it either.

Here is some propaganda music, lol... What is His name? What is His son's name? Yahuwah... Yahshuwah. They literally believe that salvation depends upon knowing the true name of God.

salvation does depend on calling on the name of God...but calling on it means putting faith and trust in it too. How we pronounce it is not an issue really. There are so many different languages and names are all pronounced differently in different languages anyway, so to demand an exact pronounciation is a bit extreme....especially considering no one knows the exact pronounciation. The closest we've got is Jah...that is the abbreviated name of God which was vowel marks in the hebrew scriptures...it is only the first half of the name though. hebrew scholars favor Yahweh as the most likely pronunciation and they point to Yah/Jah as at Psalm 89:8, to get the first half of the pronunciation.

 

[JacobEzra.]

thats correct, no one knows the correct pronunciation.

the way it is written as Jehovah is the oldest known christian rendering...hence why we use it.

i'll hunt around for some more detailed information on the pronunciation and how we know early christians used his name.

Which you will find is german pronunciation. J=Y and W=V

 

[Pegg]

Which you will find is german pronunciation. J=Y and W=V

when hebrew is transliterated to english, the Y becomes a J
When it is translated from Hebrew into Greek, the Y becomes I

That is why we freely use the name Jesus. But his hebrew name is Yehoh‧shu′aʽ
And when translated to Greek it is I‧e‧sous′

And that is why Yaweh can be translated into Jehovah
Or from hebrew to greek as I‧a‧ou‧e′

 

[JacobEzra.]

when hebrew is transliterated to english, the Y becomes a J
When it is translated from Hebrew into Greek, the Y becomes I

That is why we freely use the name Jesus. But his hebrew name is Yehoh‧shu′aʽ
And when translated to Greek it is I‧e‧sous′

And that is why Yaweh can be translated into Jehovah
Or from hebrew to greek as I‧a‧ou‧e′

Not really. If you study Hebrew, you will see that when spelled with latin alphabet they still use Y for yod. Such as, Yerushalem, Yaqov, etc.

It was in german do they use a J because J has the same sound as Y. And W because it has the same sound as V.

And english carries from German. Like England means Land of Angels. Engel is german for angels.


Never is yod turn to modern english J.

And there is no W in Hebrew.

I do not know how hard its to understand. Go look it up. Vav is only V though with vowel point O and U. You will not find W in a Hebrew word. Nor would you find a J.

SO taking in consideration that the YHVH IS hebrew and would have been pronounced with Hebrew pronunciation, the closest form we can use would be

Yehovah.

and again, we do not know the vowels so it ccan be many ways.

Yahavah, Yahovah, Yahevah, Yahavoh, etc

 

[Gaura Priya]

Which you will find is german pronunciation. J=Y and W=V

Yehowah...

Jehovah is just the English version of the name. Same with Jesus... Jesus is not Jesus' original name... it's the form of the Greek, which is the form of the original Hebrew.

When names become nativised in languages, they generally phonetically evolve according to the sounds of the language.

For example,

Jesus (English) /jee-zas/
Jésus (French) /zhay-zoo/
Ieku (Hawaiian) /ye-koo/
Iehu (Maori) /ye-hoo/
Jesus (Spanish) /khay-soos)
Gisù (Italian) /jee-zoo/
Jesus (Portuguese) /zhay-zoosh/
Jesus (Tagalog) /hay-soos/

 

[JacobEzra.]

Yehowah...

Jehovah is just the English version of the name. Same with Jesus... Jesus is not Jesus' original name... it's the form of the Greek, which is the form of the original Hebrew.

When names become nativised in languages, they generally phonetically evolve according to the sounds of the language.

For example,

Jesus (English) /jee-zas/
Jésus (French) /zhay-zoo/
Ieku (Hawaiian) /ye-koo/
Iehu (Maori) /ye-hoo/
Jesus (Spanish) /khay-soos)
Gisù (Italian) /jee-zoo/
Jesus (Portuguese) /zhay-zoosh/
Jesus (Tagalog) /hay-soos/

I know this. In Latin its pronounced close to the spanish way of being pronounced. But I am saying though just like the Hebrew name of Jesus is transliterated as Yehoshua, the tetagram would be a Y and V for accuracy.

 

[Me Myself]

Jesus (Spanish) /khay-soos)
Gisù (Italian) /jee-zoo/
Jesus (Portuguese) /zhay-zoosh/
Jesus (Tagalog) /hay-soos/

Hummm the spanish trasnlation sounds more like Heh- soos

the first part sounds like when you are to say "Hea"(-ven) or "He"-ck or "He"-ll

 

[Gaura Priya]

Hummm the spanish trasnlation sounds more like Heh- soos

the first part sounds like when you are to say "Hea"(-ven) or "He"-ck or "He"-ll

Actually, my romanisation of the Spanish j was to find an English equivalent. In IPA, I probably would have more properly spelled it as /He'sus/, H being that harsh gutteral.

If you know the word 'Loch' in English, that Scottish sound is the same sound found in Spanish, 'rr' in Portuguese, 'ch' in Gaelic, and 'kh' in Persian.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I know this. In Latin its pronounced close to the spanish way of being pronounced. But I am saying though just like the Hebrew name of Jesus is transliterated as Yehoshua, the tetagram would be a Y and V for accuracy.

Okay, so linguistics is straying my thread away, but...

Actually, in Latin, "Jesus" was pronounced 'ye-sus', the same way as Greek, although Greek would have it rendered as 'Iesous.'

Although yes, 'v' does exist in modern Hebrew now, there are still linguists who are trying to figure out if ancient Hebrew had that sound, or if it was actually 'w' instead. So although Yehovah is the modern name used by Karaite Jews these days, *because* /w/ and /v/ are more or less allophonic, that can also be debatable, thus giving a plausible 'Yehowah' instead.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Okay, so linguistics is straying my thread away, but...

Actually, in Latin, "Jesus" was pronounced 'ye-sus', the same way as Greek, although Greek would have it rendered as 'Iesous.'

Although yes, 'v' does exist in modern Hebrew now, there are still linguists who are trying to figure out if ancient Hebrew had that sound, or if it was actually 'w' instead. So although Yehovah is the modern name used by Karaite Jews these days, *because* /w/ and /v/ are more or less allophonic, that can also be debatable, thus giving a plausible 'Yehowah' instead.

What other hebrew word has a w?

And if anything this is still in bounds with your thread. I am poking a hole in this so called movement, based on a name they do not even know how to pronounce

 

[Gaura Priya]

What other hebrew word has a w?

And if anything this is still in bounds with your thread. I am poking a hole in this so called movement, based on a name they do not even know how to pronounce

/w/ and /v/ are allophonic in ancient Hebrew. This means that they are the same sound, or interchangeable.

This /w/ and /v/ allophone is also seen in Indian languages where words like 'veda' and 'weda' can be pronounced either way and still understood, or in Spanish, where the letters 'b' and 'v' are the same sound as /v/.

Here's a Wiki of the ancient Hebrew 'waw' having become the letter 'vav' in modern Hebrew: Waw (letter) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Biblical Hebrew orthography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In most Semitic languages it represents the sound [w], and in some (such as Hebrew and Arabic) also the long vowel [uː], depending on context.
In Modern Hebrew, the consonantal pronunciation is [v] or [β], a pattern shared by certain non-Semitic languages using the Arabic alphabet such as Persian and Urdu.

 

[JacobEzra.]

/w/ and /v/ are allophonic in ancient Hebrew. This means that they are the same sound, or interchangeable.

This /w/ and /v/ allophone is also seen in Indian languages where words like 'veda' and 'weda' can be pronounced either way and still understood, or in Spanish, where the letters 'b' and 'v' are the same sound as /v/.

Here's a Wiki of the ancient Hebrew 'waw' having become the letter 'vav' in modern Hebrew: Waw (letter) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Biblical Hebrew orthography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:clapNow, I owe you an apology.

I am only familiar with modern Hebrew.

With that, I am sorry. Have a good day sir