Safe Spaces and RF

[Kilgore Trout]

Is that directory thing still used or enforced? The rules and structure around here have always been a little vague and variable for my tastes, but, regardless, I don't really mind when cowards insult people from behind safe walls. It reveals far more about themselves than anyone else. Then again, I've generally seen this type of behavior more from the liberalish than the conservativish people around here.

 

[Kirran]

@Scuba Pete - DIR stands for Discuss In Religion. DIRs are areas of the forums where only Hindus or only Buddhists or only Shi'ites or whatever can post.

 

[Scuba Pete]

when cowards insult people

Probably the most unfriendly statement ever made on RF.

This is a self fulfilling prophecy. You wonder why people avoid you when you're acting as ugly as possible? It's not them being intolerant: it's them being smart and you being anti-social. Why in the world would they want to be accosted by such a troll? Why would they want to cast their pearls among the swine? People like this get put on my ignore list pretty darn quick.

This is the problem with America today. I believe differently than you, so you refer to me in an unkind manner. Then, you wonder why I don't hang around you? It's not me: it's really, really you. It's the rule of NOK. If you make me feel unwelcome, ie "not our kind", then I'm going to go somewhere else. It has nothing to do with being a coward.

NOK, NOK, who's there? Not me.

 

[Revoltingest]

Probably the most unfriendly statement ever made on RF.

No, he's right,.
We've seen posters hide behind the DIR to insult people who are prohibited from responding there.

 

[Revoltingest]

Columbus jerks Rev's kilt off and tosses it over Rev's head to @SomeRandom .
Tom

Take a gander....& let jealousy consume ya!

 

[Quintessence]

No, he's right,.
We've seen posters hide behind the DIR to insult people who are prohibited from responding there.

Just an FYI, if folks are seeing this, it's against the rules governing DIRs and should be reported. If people don't report this stuff to us, it will fly under our radar.

 

[SomeRandom]

Just an FYI, if folks are seeing this, it's against the rules governing DIRs and should be reported. If people don't report this stuff to us, it will fly under our radar.

Oh I didn't know that. Good to know

 

[Scuba Pete]

If people don't report this stuff to us, it will fly under our radar.

I was hoping this was the case and thanks for clarifying it. Remember, you don't have to be the one insulted to report it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

IMO "snowflakes" seem to require "safe spaces" to avoid confrontation or opinions contrary to their feelings and imaginations.

On the other hand, the use of special forums (in my idea) is to congregate with like-minded individuals for the sake of community and internal discussion and to avoid the "noise" of outsiders .. not because our feelings or imaginations might get hurt or toppled.

Would you mind elaborating on what you mean exactly by "feelings and imaginations"?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I have no problem with the idea of safe spaces. I have a problem with people who I see abuse them just so they can feel special. And this is a thing.
There are people, the number of which at least appears to be rising, who actively want to have mental issues to feel special. Even on survivor forums, there is at least one person who lies or pretends to have it worse than they have it. I remember once a person admitted to outright lying about being raped, because it happened to them in reality afterwards. It shattered our "safe space" because it was a breach of trust. And that seems to be ignored by the proponents of safe spaces. That there is an element of (let's be fair, mostly kids) who self diagnose or even lie about being triggered and needing safe spaces. And it's these very safe spaces that essentially does not help these kids. There is no one who can (for a lack of a better phrase) call them out for their crybaby tactics. To sort of give them some perspective or I dunno, not tolerate their tantrums. That is a disservice to these kids and indeed to all who actually do have issues that requires emotional security.
And there is another element that either takes it too far or makes it into a farce or even destroys what said safe space was supposed to accomplish.
Now I don't always fit into "safe spaces" because my sense of humor is very harsh, seemingly mean spirited and dark. But I get the need for them. I have just seen it abused too often for me to really get behind them fully.
I see them as too dividing, too indulgent to extremism, too indulgent to insipid "problems." Not all of them, mind you. But they are easily manipulated to become that way by people.
And it's those sorts of elements that do make it harder for everyone else. They end up watering down words like "triggers" and even "sexism/racism." I have seen that word thrown around so often that if I see an accusation of someone being racist or sexist that I do not even heed it. That should not be happening. I should not be becoming numb to potential racist and/or sexists. But I am. People just resort to it so often that it becomes blase. Normal even. Same with words like "sexual harassment." I do not take such words seriously anymore, because there are very overtly sensitive idiots who just use it as a tactic to gain sympathy.
I don't want to, but it just happens slowly over time and before you know it. Bam. You're now numb to accusations of racism, sexism and sexual harassment.
(And yes this is just anecdotal but whatever.)

It seems to me that you might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If some people are overusing words like "racism," "sexism," etc., then I think calling out instances of overuse is far more reasonable than not taking the words seriously anymore, which I believe could pave the way for actual instances of racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry.

The same thing goes for the concept of safe spaces: I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss them altogether just because some people are abusing them, because many others actually need them or find a lot of value in them. When something is overused or abused, calling that out seems to me to be far better than just scrapping the subject of overuse or abuse altogether.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I would advise any emotionally sensitive people on this site to show more fortitude and psychological resilience when confronted with opinions one subjectively construes to be offensive, particularly when those opinions are well within the established boundaries of this site's rules and regulations.

I would advise any people who engage in attention-seeking and juvenile posturing in order to sound "edgy" or "tough" on this site to show more rationality and psychological maturity in their posts when confronted with opinions they subjectively construe to be offensive or wrong, particularly when those opinions are well within established boundaries of this site's rules and regulations, in addition to being well within the established boundaries of common decency.

 

[SomeRandom]

It seems to me that you might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If some people are overusing words like "racism," "sexism," etc., then I think calling out instances of overuse is far more reasonable than not taking the words seriously anymore, which I believe could pave the way for actual instances of racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry.

The same thing goes for the concept of safe spaces: I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss them altogether just because some people are abusing them, because many others actually need them or find a lot of value in them. When something is overused or abused, calling that out seems to me to be far better than just scrapping the subject of overuse or abuse altogether.

I'm not dismissing them I'm simply not going for them, overtly anyway. People are free to use them if they so desire, I certainly won't stop anyone. I'm not that important to have such an affect on people.
I'm just saying that there are flaws to them. And I do call out such instances only the thing is now I'm on the other side of such accusations. There are these kids who have this idea of attacking people and not ideas. So you know, some people are just unreasonable ********. Most aren't though.

 

[Aštra’el]

I would advise any people who engage in attention-seeking and juvenile posturing in order to sound "edgy" or "tough" on this site to show more rationality and psychological maturity in their posts when confronted with opinions they subjectively construe to be offensive or wrong, particularly when those opinions are well within established boundaries of this site's rules and regulations, in addition to being well within the established boundaries of common decency.

 

[buddhist]

Would you mind elaborating on what you mean exactly by "feelings and imaginations"?

I mean that it seems to me that the participation-trophy generation has been taught that personal feelings are the primary indicators of "right" and "wrong".

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I honestly enjoy when people try to insult me. It gives me opportunity to hone my defenses and strengthen my resolve. I'm seriously to a point that people can only unwittingly insult me - that is, say something without me as the intended or direct target. Direct insults have absolutely zero effect.

 

[dust1n]

The only safe space I need is from scary refugees.

 

[SomeRandom]

I mean that it seems to me that the participation-trophy generation has been taught that personal feelings are the primary indicators of "right" and "wrong".

That can be true of some of the younger millennials. I suppose it's how they're raised though. But I can kind of agree. I just missed the participation trophy thing, but unless the kids are like really little, then you shouldn't get a trophy just for participating. Learn to deal with defeat, defeat is healthy it's a part of life.

 

[omega2xx]

I have seen a lot of posts on this forum mocking the idea of safe spaces and saying they're for "special snowflakes." One of the arguments behind that, it seems, is that no one should seek to stay away from and stop the expression of opinions they find objectionable during some discussions in specific settings, because that supposedly amounts to unjustified censorship.

A lot of the members who have made such posts use DIRs and "Only" forum sections, though. Now, things are obviously different on an Internet forum, but if you're against the idea of isolating oneself from outsiders' opinions in some discussions in settings where outsiders' criticism is not allowed, why do you yourself do so here?

Also, if safe spaces isolate people from criticism and therefore make them unable to react to it rationally, does using DIRs and "Only" forum sections mean you can't deal with criticism in debates elsewhere on the forums?

Discuss. Also, please note that these aren't meant as rhetorical questions, even if they might look like ones, and that these questions are only aimed at members who reject the idea of safe spaces while using DIRs and other restricted forum sections themselves.

Thank you.

No one can be safe if they only hear one side, unless that side is the only true side and that is seldom the case. Those who only want their ears ticked, need to join the real world.

Those who cry over losing, need to get out of lala land and smell the pizza.

I don't need a safe space. I need to have my views challenged. If I can't defend them, I need to change them.

 

[omega2xx]

The debate seems to be less about whether or not safe spaces are okay and more about what safe spaces are.

The side for see's them as an area where minority groups which are dealt with hostility in an everyday environment to be in a space where they don't have to deal with a certain subject like sexual assault or discrimination like racism or homophobia.

The side against seem's to think that it's an area where crazy feminazi's go to talk about their ideological beliefs, not look at any opposing viewpoints and feed eachother's egos.

If it's not evident already, I think they're fine.


As for the context within RF,

A while ago, Laika posted a thread about Obama not being a socialist in the socialist (or communist) DIR to make his position clear to the rest of the left. He then made a discussion thread in the not DIR after being criticized.

All the discussion which was not in a dir was based in misconception and buzzwords.
I understand why DIR's exist.

If someone wants to criticize something said they can make their own thread in debates.

The place to criticize what is said is where it is said. Criticism is healthy if it is done in a civil manner. It makes me rethink my views, and occasionally I have had to face the reality that my view was wrong. I would never see that is a so-called safe space.

No one's views are 100% right and at times we need to see where the weeds are in our garden, and apply a little Roundup.

 

[mr.guy]

I honestly enjoy when people try to insult me. It gives me opportunity to hone my defenses and strengthen my resolve. I'm seriously to a point that people can only unwittingly insult me - that is, say something without me as the intended or direct target. Direct insults have absolutely zero effect.

Good to know, you piece of crap.