Saint Tolkien???

[IndigoChild5559]

I am an unabashed devout fan of the LOTR. No, that really doesn't capture it. Let me try again.

I consider the LOTR to be the single greatest spiritual work written in the last, oh my, I don't even know how long. When was the last canon written for a world religion? The last major sutra for Buddhism?

I admit that one of the reasons I like the LOTR is because Tolkien has a positive view of Jews, and he bases his Dunedain (the descendants of the Kings of Gondor) on them. One of major threads of the trilogy is Aragorn moving from being "hidden" as a mere Ranger of the North to being crowned King of Gondor, thus fulfilling prophecy. That very prophecy reads as if it were about the Jews:

All that is gold does not glitter
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither
Deep roots are not touched by the frost
From the ashes a fire shall waken
A light from the fire shall sping
Renewed shall be blade that was broken
And the crownless again shall be king.

(He originally wrote this BEFORE Israel's war of Independence in 1948,)

But honestly, it would be so, so, so shallow if I reduced the LOTR to this. We are talking epic deep myth. And if you think "myth" is a derogatory word, I refer you to "On Fairy Stories," also by Tolkien, because true myth is the most powerful form of literature there is. You can read the entire essay here: http://brainstorm-services.com/wcu-2004/fairystories-tolkien.pdf

But let's get down to the main point of this thread:

THERE IS A MOVEMENT IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO CANONIZE TOLKIEN A SAINT.

Is that incredible or what? Right now the first step is towards something called beatification. It's kind of sainthood-lite. "On September 2, 2017, the Oxford Oratory offered its first Mass for the intention of Tolkien’s cause for beatification to be opened." The Oxford Oratory was Tolkien’s parish while he lived at Oxford.

Of course, part of this is because Tolkien was a very devout Catholic. He was deeply moved by the Eucharist. His Catholicism permeated every aspect of his life, whether it was his family (he was very devoted to his wife) or his work. His faith came up in his conversations with his friends -- he was pivotal in the conversion of CS Lewis to Christianity. We can hear in his Elves' devotion to Elbereth Gilthoniel his own adoration of the Virgin Mary.

Snow-white! Snow-white! O Lady clear!
O Queen beyond the Western Seas!
O Light to us that wander here
Amid the world of woven trees!
O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
We still remember, we who dwell
In this far land beneath the trees,
Thy starlight on the Western Seas.
​

And of course, part of this is because Tolkien communicates the Catholic worldview through his writing.

What? you say. There is no Jesus in middle earth, no church, no eucharist, no gospel message. What Catholic worldview are you talking about?

A worldview goes much deeper than the sort of obvious things one discusses in prose. It gets into the underlying assumptions that we are usually not even conscious of.

One of these would be the Catholic idea that beauty evangelizes. Tolkien creates a world of immeasurable beauty, beauty so great that it moves us, inspires us, even brings us into moments of transcendence.

J. R.R. Tolkien, in this writer’s opinion, has one of the best innate grasps of evangelizing through beauty of anyone writing in the 20th century. Why? Because his work is permeated with a Catholic understanding of beauty. That which is beautiful is pleasing to the senses, but doesn’t stop at a surface level, rather acting as an icon that draws you into deeper realities and encounter with the Divine.

The world Tolkien created in Middle Earth is steeped in this beauty and nobility that raises your mind upwards and calls you to higher things. You can’t read his epic work without feeling stirred to your very bones to live a life of greatness, rather than comfort.

https://epicpew.com/tolkien-canonization-cause/
​

Another element of Catholicism that saturates the LOTR is what can be called a "Sacramental Worldview." This is the idea that the ordinary can contain the sacred, that the universe is indeed infused with the sacred. In pre-enlightenment Catholicism this was found in ideas such as stars and planets being inhabited by angels -- thus we have St. Francis and his famous "Brother Sun, Sister Moon." It is the sacramental worldview which gives rise to the catholic use of such things as holy water or blessed rosaries and belief in the power of the crucifix. It even extends so far as to explain the Catholic trust of societal institutions, since all of creation is permeated by the divine. It doesn't take a literary scholar to recognize the sacramental worldview at work in the many "magical" object of middle earth. One can easily imagine a burning bush or an Ark of the covenant in Middle Earth. And because it is myth, the presentation slips past the radar of our skeptical minds and goes straight for the analogical, intuitive, unconscious, where it is nurtured and grows.

There are so many other elements of the Catholic worldview present in the LOTR, but this post is already too long!

So what do you think, my friends? Will future generations buys copies of the LOTR with a byline of "St JRR Tolkien"? I think that would be pretty dog gone cool, actually, and I'm not even Catholic!

 

[Terese]

Tolkien's Catholic worldview is also greatly apparent in The Silmarillion, where Eru Iluvatar is near identical to the Christian god and the Valar and Maiar are angels who serve him and speak to the inhabitants of Middle Earth. Not to mention that Morgoth is Tolkien's version of Satan

I think it quite odd to have Tolkien canonised as while his works are greatly inspired by his faith, they are fictional stories of epic and valour also influenced by Germanic mythology. They are not commentaries on the nature of The Bible or such.

Also (sorry for pinching your pinkie) but the Dunedain aren't based on Jews, Dwarves are.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Where are you getting that Tolkien based the Dunedain on Jews? All I can find is that he made a comment that the dwarves are like the Jews, which is a decidedly less glamorous comparison.
Racism in Tolkien's Works - Tolkien Gateway

Personally, I doubt he will be canonized, even if his fiction books have Catholic themes in it. It's probably just a push by ardent fans of his work. But we'll see. (Funny that immanance of the Divine and sacred is mentioned as a Catholic theme when polytheism has recognized that all along.)

 

[Woberts]

Ew, that sucks.

 

[SomeRandom]

Lol Saint Tolkein. Has a nice ring to it.
Although I'm just imagining the core Tolkein fanbase going to Church dressed as elves and confessing their grave sins of enjoying the occasional sci fi. 20 hail Tolkeins for cheating on the high fantasy genre.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Tolkien rewrote all sorts of myths and stories, making them into what he thought "really happened." He also said that he was creating a mythology for the English people, something that he felt did not exist before. That he was also heavily influenced by his Catholicism has long been recognized, but he specifically stated that the events described pre-date the beginnings of our civilizations by many tens of thousands of years--and hence, predate the revealed religions of Judaism and Christianity.

The Dwarves were created by one of the 'angels,' making them the imperfect creation of someone other than the high god. This is something of a Zoroastrian theme, which became a gnostic idea, but also reflected in Marcionism. But he/she (I'd have to look up the name; I'm thinking it was a she) sought forgiveness for the transgression of going beyond her/his assigned duty in the creation of Middle Earth.

And yes, Sauron and his predecessor Melkor/Morgoth were fallen angels...

 

[sealchan]

Doesn't there have to be evidence of miracles or something?

I love Tolkien and I would argue that his works expand and extent the mythic literature of Christianity and perhaps the Germanic myth he was also deeply influenced by. I would dearly love to see a church embrace the notion that modern works of myth are instructive in the faith.

I'm not going to get my hopes up.

 

[sealchan]

All this talk of the Silmarillion is already getting me dreamy about the idea of a movie...

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Also (sorry for pinching your pinkie) but the Dunedain aren't based on Jews, Dwarves are.

It's not an either or. It depends on whether you are reading the Hobbit or the LOTR.

While much of Tolkien's Dwarves simply builds on Europe's common mythos (their dwelling underground, working with metals and gems, and sometimes obsession with wealth), it's quite true that Tolkien also drew from Jewish history and language.

Basically, in the HOBBIT, Tolkien's dwarves have been exiled from their homelands. They wander around the world speaking the languages of other peoples, but among themselves they speak their own Semitic language. They remember their past sufferings (this is pre 1948) in dramatic tales, and especially in sad songs

The "Ark"enstone is the Ark of the Covenant, and the Lonely Mountain is the Temple Mount...

As scholars have noted, while Wagner's Ring Cycle justified anti-Semitism, Tolkien's THE HOBBIT fixed the story. Another reason I love Tolkien.

The pines were roaring on the height,
The winds were moaning in the night.
The fire was red, it flaming spread;
The trees like torches blazed with light.

The bells were ringing in the dale
And men they looked up with faces pale;
The dragon’s ire more fierce than fire
Laid low their towers and houses frail.

The mountain smoked beneath the moon;
The dwarves they heard the tramp of doom.
They fled their hall to dying fall
Beneath his feet, beneath the moon.

Far over the misty mountains grim
To dungeons deep and caverns dim
We must away, ere break of day,
To win our harps and gold from him!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Where are you getting that Tolkien based the Dunedain on Jews? All I can find is that he made a comment that the dwarves are like the Jews, which is a decidedly less glamorous comparison.
Racism in Tolkien's Works - Tolkien Gateway

Personally, I doubt he will be canonized, even if his fiction books have Catholic themes in it. It's probably just a push by ardent fans of his work. But we'll see. (Funny that immanance of the Divine and sacred is mentioned as a Catholic theme when polytheism has recognized that all along.)

May I ask, if not the Jews, who do you think the Numenorians and their offspring are inspired by? What people is it that you think Tolkien would believe would wander but not be lost? And who else might fulfill the messianic prophecy of the return of the King?

The Numenorians are basically a kind of "chosen people." They alone were permitted to go overseas. They returned to be a priestly people, a light to the nations. They have lost their kingdom, and wander. But as prophecied, the King aka Messiah, returns to Gondor after the apocolyptic eucatastrophe.

The similarities between the Dunedain/Numenorians and the Jews gets discussed from time to time on Tolkienite forums.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Doesn't there have to be evidence of miracles or something?

I love Tolkien and I would argue that his works expand and extent the mythic literature of Christianity and perhaps the Germanic myth he was also deeply influenced by. I would dearly love to see a church embrace the notion that modern works of myth are instructive in the faith.

I'm not going to get my hopes up.

Yes, there has to be evidence of miracles for the final level of Sainthood to be bestowed. If I remember correctly (and this is totally not my field of expertise) beatification, which is simply the first step towards sainthood, does not require miracles. Perhaps our Catholic friends can provide us with more information. Is there any special title Tolkien would get if he is beatified? Is there a title for someone for whom the inquiry process has begun? I understand that usually in the case for Sainthood, most times the miracles are done after a person's death when Catholics pray to them. Will Catholics be praying for Tolkiens intercessions? Catholics, chime in! We need you!

 

[Shiranui117]

Doesn't there have to be evidence of miracles or something?

I love Tolkien and I would argue that his works expand and extent the mythic literature of Christianity and perhaps the Germanic myth he was also deeply influenced by. I would dearly love to see a church embrace the notion that modern works of myth are instructive in the faith.

I'm not going to get my hopes up.

Here's a miracle--Peter Jackson turned The Hobbit into three movies...

 

[columbus]

I've been rather a Tolkien nerd since my teens.

A couple of years ago I mentioned to my sister that I thought it would be fun to go to Middle Earth. She said "Yuck, the place sounds horrible!"
I couldn't imagine why she would dislike the place.

After thinking about it for awhile, it occurred to me that Middle Earth is a great place for a tall, healthy white guy with little interest in girls or religion. My sister found it less attractive.

Tolkien's world is rife with racism and classism and misogyny, greed and strife. Subservience is valued in people, when that's their "proper place".
It's so middle class, middle 20th century, British, it's darned near Scriptural!
Tom