Saints in Washington called to vote against legislature

[Alizée]

As men they are, but as prophets, seers and revelators for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, they are not.

This is politics we are talking about.

Fallible as can be on that. :yes:

Besides, if you haven't already seen it, I'll post it again.

Salt Lake Tribune

Latter-day Saints are free to disagree with their church on the issue without facing any sanction, said L. Whitney Clayton of the LDS Quorum of the Seventy. "We love them and bear them no ill will."

That should settle this once and for who is actually on the Lord's side.

 

[Worshipper]

To try to convice the LDS members on this Forum that the Prophet knows what he is talking about.

Has the Prophet said anything about the issue in Washington? If so, would you mind telling us where we can find that?

I know the Church spoke out on the issue in California. That was rare. This issue has arisen in many states. To my knowledge, only in California's debate over the issue did the Church get involved. When the issue came up here in Utah a few years back, I don't recall the Church saying anything about it. For some reason, the leadership of the Church urged us to act on this issue only in California, and not in any other jurisdiction in the world where similar legislation has been debated.

For some reason, it was important in California. Perhaps the legal situation of the Church in California is significantly different from everywhere else. I don't know. Maybe the Lord intends to send a special child to California in the near future and wants that child to be born in a place where same-sex marriage is illegal — it would be interesting if an initiative to repeal the new constitutional amendment in California comes up in a few years and the Church remains silent on it. I really have no idea what made California so special. But for whatever reason, the Prophet felt it was.

Has the Church taken a similar stance on Washington? If not, then why are you stretching out your hand to steady the ark? If the Prophet thought Prop 8 in California was a unique situation, why are you trying to tell us he's wrong?

 

[FFH]

if you haven't already seen it, I'll post it again.

Salt Lake Tribune

"Latter-day Saints are free to disagree with their church on the issue without facing any sanction, said L. Whitney Clayton of the LDS Quorum of the Seventy. We love them and bear them no ill will."

I'm well aware of this statement, but what you don't realize is that you are disagreeing with the leaders of the LDS church, who are led by Jesus Christ, who is led by our Heavenly Father.

I wouldn't want to disagree with the Lord on any issue.

"Who's on the Lord's side???"

We have our free agency to disagree with the Lord and the leaders of the LDS faith, however we are not free to choose the consequences that will follow in this life and the next.

 

[Alizée]

I'm well aware of this statement, but what you don't realize is that you are disagreeing with the leaders of the LDS church, who are led by Jesus Christ, who is led by our Heavenly Father.

I wouldn't want to disagree with the Lord on any issue.

"Who's on the Lord's side???"

We have our free agency to disagree with the Lord and the leaders of the LDS faith, however we are not free to choose the consequences that will follow in this life and the next.

Again, this does not affect my eternal salvation.

You aren't my bishop, you aren't the prophet, and you aren't' the Lord. You don't make those sort of desicions for me and you certainly are in no position to judge me.

 

[deseretgov]

Sorry i only read as far as this post.

Do you understand what "without facing any sanction" means? It means that we will not be punished, nor will our temple recommends be taken away,

I 100% agree with this.

nor will any blessings or ANYTHING for that matter. Nothing.

I disagree with this. It is not up to the church to give or take away blessings. It is up to God to do that. No one may face church sanctions but this statement says nothing about what blessings a peorson will or will not recieve by following the suggestions of the church.

 

[Watchmen]

Sorry i only read as far as this post.



I 100% agree with this.



I disagree with this. It is not up to the church to give or take away blessings. It is up to God to do that. No one may face church sanctions but this statement says nothing about what blessings a peorson will or will not recieve by following the suggestions of the church.

And I'll disagree with you. If we are worthy to hold temple recommends then we are worthy of all the promises made in the temple - most of all, eternal life - the greatest blessing of all.

 

[madhatter85]

And I'll disagree with you. If we are worthy to hold temple recommends then we are worthy of all the promises made in the temple - most of all, eternal life - the greatest blessing of all.

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?


the ONLY reason the prophets have stated that you "won't get in trouble" for voting no on it is because they know it is a heated issue and the saints are far from perfected.

It's a sad fact that they even had to ask the saints to vote yes on prop 8 when they should have been doing it in the first place -
D&C 58:

26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.
29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[Watchmen]

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?


the ONLY reason the prophets have stated that you "won't get in trouble" for voting no on it is because they know it is a heated issue and the saints are far from perfected.

It's a sad fact that they even had to ask the saints to vote yes on prop 8 when they should have been doing it in the first place -
D&C 58:

The answer to question 7 is YES. And I renewed my temple recommend with the Bishop and Stake President while all of this was going on.

No matter how many times you say the same thing over and over you are wrong.

The church has said there are NO sanctions. Why do you choose to ignore that?

 

[deseretgov]

And I'll disagree with you. If we are worthy to hold temple recommends then we are worthy of all the promises made in the temple - most of all, eternal life - the greatest blessing of all.

I'm not talking about the promises made in the temple. I'm talking about any other blessings God would see fit to bestow upon those who follow the prophet even when it is not vital to do so. I have no idea what exactly these blessings would be mainly because only God can determine that, and they would be different for every person.

 

[Watchmen]

I'm not talking about the promises made in the temple. I'm talking about any other blessings God would see fit to bestow upon those who follow the prophet even when it is not vital to do so. I have no idea what exactly these blessings would be mainly because only God can determine that, and they would be different for every person.

When one is eligible for the blessings promised in the temple, it's difficult to imagine any other blessing of significance or that God would withhold such a blessing while granting the highest degree of eternal life.

 

[deseretgov]

When one is eligible for the blessings promised in the temple, it's difficult to imagine any other blessing of significance or that God would withhold such a blessing while granting the highest degree of eternal life.

That's exactly why I said that. The significance of such blessing may not be that great. However there is still a blessing associated with it.

 

[Watchmen]

That's exactly why I said that. The significance of such blessing may not be that great. However there is still a blessing associated with it.

We'll continue to disagree. If one qualifies for the highest degree of eternal life - they qualify for any blessing the Lord sees fit to bestow.

 

[deseretgov]

We'll continue to disagree. If one qualifies for the highest degree of eternal life - they qualify for any blessing the Lord sees fit to bestow.

Yep. And while I have my own opinion, I'm not going to speak for the Lord. Whatever His will is, I will accept.

 

[zippythepinhead]

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

MH I understand your stance. However, inform your friends, neighbors, and other people in and out of the Church in Washington State to redress their grievances to the state Senators and Representatives that represent them.

Not all LDS may support your views, but when getting the message out state that it is your view that this legislation be opposed. Always remember the power of persuasion is a better tool than the power of contention( I have learned that the hard way).

We are told as Saints to proclaim the truth of the Gospel and our beliefs to others, but we are cautioned when trying to make sure that we don't invoke the Church's name in backing our own personal activity or opinions, unless the Church has officially spoken on the matter at issue. Just some food for thought.

 

[madhatter85]

MH I understand your stance. However, inform your friends, neighbors, and other people in and out of the Church in Washington State to redress their grievances to the state Senators and Representatives that represent them.

Not all LDS may support your views, but when getting the message out state that it is your view that this legislation be opposed. Always remember the power of persuasion is a better tool than the power of contention( I have learned that the hard way).

We are told as Saints to proclaim the truth of the Gospel and our beliefs to others, but we are cautioned when trying to make sure that we don't invoke the Church's name in backing our own personal activity or opinions, unless the Church has officially spoken on the matter at issue. Just some food for thought.

That is true, I would not assume however, that if there was another vote on the subject in any part of the world where there are saints that the church would not speak out the same way and asked the saints to do everything they can to support traditinal marriage as ordained of God

 

[zippythepinhead]

That is true, I would not assume however, that if there was another vote on the subject in any part of the world where there are saints that the church would not speak out the same way and asked the saints to do everything they can to support traditinal marriage as ordained of God

Agreed. Since the Church can't get involved in every marriage related political thing that comes up, it is up to the individual members to work the political process, using the Gospel as a guide and as they understand it.

Joseph Smith taught that we are to work righteousness on our own without being commanded all the time, lest the Lord view us as slothful servants

 

[Starfish]

I don't think that the Church should have to speak out further as votes and issues concerning SSM arrise. We are all very clear on the Prophet's stance and should be able to act and vote accordingly, on our own.

And for the most part, I agree with MH's fierce loyalty to our Prophet.

 

[Watchmen]

I don't think that the Church should have to speak out further as votes and issues concerning SSM arrise. We are all very clear on the Prophet's stance and should be able to act and vote accordingly, on our own.

And for the most part, I agree with MH's fierce loyalty to our Prophet.

*sigh*

Thanks a lot.

50 years ago you and MH would prevent my wife and I from being sealed in Salt Lake.

 

[madhatter85]

*sigh*

Thanks a lot.

50 years ago you and MH would prevent my wife and I from being sealed in Salt Lake.

uhhh, no.

 

[Watchmen]

uhhh, no.

Yep. I read it in a book by a former member of the RS General Presidency.