Salvation by Works

[sandy whitelinger]

While you're at it, Sandy, would you mind also addressing this: If he who endures to the end shall be saved, what will happen to him who does not endure to the end?

They're referred to in the locker room as "wussies."

 

[Katzpur]

They're referred to in the locker room as "wussies."

Was that supposed to be a real answer, 'cause I did ask a real question.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Was that supposed to be a real answer, 'cause I did ask a real question.

Did you really think it was?

 

[sojourner]

If they do not show fruit of the spirit then it can be assumed that the spirit does not dwell in them and they are still lost.

I don't think it's safe to assume anything about the state of our righteousness. It's safe to assume that we are in a state of grace, but righteousness is another issue.

The righteousness (works) of faith is a "result" of the process.

Our becoming righteous -- learning how to do the "works" of faith is precisely the process. I think you're looking at the process backwards. We were recreated in a state of grace (the end result, if you will). We then learn how to live into that state -- righteousness -- (the process).

We are all on a path to the Divine. Some are on one path, some on another. Some are not very far on the path, some are very far along. I think we assume too much when we assume that, just because an individual does not "show forth the fruits," that individual is still "lost." The individual may, indeed, be "found," it's just that the individual isn't very far along on the "right" path.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I don't think it's safe to assume anything about the state of our righteousness. It's safe to assume that we are in a state of grace, but righteousness is another issue.

Good point. I suppose an olive tree takes a while to bear fruit.

Our becoming righteous -- learning how to do the "works" of faith is precisely the process. I think you're looking at the process backwards. We were recreated in a state of grace (the end result, if you will). We then learn how to live into that state -- righteousness -- (the process).

I take a different view in that our trying to work out our own righteousness falls under the law under which no one is justified (in God's eyes). The righteousness that is imputed and comes from Christ does not require our work in order to cause fruit. Remember that Christ is the vine and we are the branch. We can however quench the spirit. If we stay out of the way , refrain from evil and deny the flesh then Christ works through us. This is the "fruit" of the process.

Perhaps sanctification is the process you mean and this does speak of our life and actions falling more in line with the example of Christ yet I leave any righteousness that I might do to Christ working in me and have long since quit claiming that I did anything worthwhile. It's all Christ and none of me.

 

[sojourner]

Great clarification. Thank you.

I suppose, when one is leaving the amusement park for home, it's difficult not to keep turning and looking back. That's why Paul tells us to keep our eyes fixed on the goal. It requires us to constantly repent -- "turn again" toward home.

 

[Katzpur]

Did you really think it was?

Not really, but I am still waiting for one.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Was that supposed to be a real answer, 'cause I did ask a real question.

Ok I'm about done with my other research and can adequately (IMHO) address this now (I never really have studied it before). Do you suppose there is a link to Mark 4:17 and the parable of the seeds?