Samson: Herculean Hero or HaShem's Hooligan

[Jayhawker Soule]

How is one to appreciate the Samson story?

 

[Caladan]

Since you chose to use Heracles in your title, I think its fair that I mention, that Heracles (Hercules), was responsible for many atrocities apart from his heroism and human suffering (which earned him an apotheosis and a way into the Olympian family).

All our true heroes are terribly human, and have a problematic resume. but thats what makes them heroes, they charge reality, get bloody, and act with passion.

No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

All our true heroes are terribly human, and have a problematic resume. but thats what makes them heroes, they charge reality, get bloody, and act with passion.

At issue is whether or not he should be considered "hero." Some did, elevating him to the status of messiah. Others treated him as the antithesis of hero and horribly flawed.

 

[Caladan]

All our true heroes are flawed.
despite their human nature, they seem to achieve the super-natural or super human. we cant analyze heroes or their impulses. nor should we bring politics into this, since a hero may be an angel to some, and a demon to others, but he is all too human, and that is the great appeal. Heracles was the most popular Greek and later Roman mythical persona, precisely because of his humanity and endurance of suffering in his life, he killed and repented repeatedly, a tormented soul with a bloody past, but his endurance and refusal to end it all and accept his own human ideal, deeds, and situation is what earned him a place among the gods.
Samson, at his final moments of humiliation and torment, called upon God and found the strength for a final retribution, the fighting spirit of a hero. its vain for us to politicise this figure out of his context (and take it out of its context) through our privilege of liberal and intellectual outlook.

 

[Heneni]

How is one to appreciate the Samson story?

He was a hero, until he turned into a bit of a hooligan. Women can do that to a man who can not distinguish between hormomes and the greater good. Many a women have made men of great potential turn into paupers. And the moral of the story is....god chooses us inspite of ourselves. Make the most of it, or we shall become less than what we were before he chose us. Samson had a 'slight' anger problem, and his special 'calling' went to his head a bit, and he did stuff that god did not command him to do. Yet at the end the temple pillars still came down, but he died with it. A lesson in humility, focus, and hormone control.

Heneni

 

[Deut 13:1]

How is one to appreciate the Samson story?

Hmm, tough to say. My answer will probably suprise you, but I believe Shimshon is more of mythological then historical. Now, this is my opinion, and doesn't represent Tradational Judaism; I'm pretty sure that the Talmud and Rashi trace Shimshon's lineage and give details on his mother and sister. I forgot their names, but I'm sure you can tell me where to look it up. It's been too long since I looked... I've been real bad, lot going on in real life... :sorry1:

 

[Dunemeister]

Hmm, tough to say. My answer will probably suprise you, but I believe Shimshon is more of mythological then historical.

Mythological or not, the story seems to have a "point." What do you think the point of the story is?

 

[Deut 13:1]

Mythological or not, the story seems to have a "point." What do you think the point of the story is?

Hope.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Mythological or not, the story seems to have a "point."

I suspect that it is nationalist folklore rather than scripture (Genesis 1) or story (Ruth) -- an effort to 'explain' the irritating persistence of the [uncircumcised] Philistines, the boogeymen of the promised land employed by YHWH to punish the Israelites.

Samson is anything but hero in the Jewish mold of heroes. He inspired no one. He led no one. And he was far more interested in women (non-Jewish women no less) than one ought to expect from a proto-Nazir. What I find most interesting and ironic is that the Samson we know and love (?) is much more the Hellenist accommodation promulgated by Josephus than what we find in Judges.

By the way, it may well be that the Samson story stands as a piece of coopted and highly redacted Philistine lore. Samson is of Dan and Judah, with the former suspected of deriving from the Sea Peoples.

 

[Jonsul]

Man is doing great,

Man finds woman,

Man loves woman,

Man gives woman his heart,

Woman betrays man to many men,

Man commits suicide and mass murder of the men woman betrayed him for,

Sounds like a real story to me
In fact I think it's happened again since then lol

 

[painted wolf]

What I find interesting in this story, is its fall and redemption theme.
Sampson was given a gift and a taboo to retain it. He however turned on his people and his god in his cavorting with women of "the other". He payed the price for that betrayal and lost the gift that god gave him.
He begs for forgiveness and is given the chance to redeem himself, not by escaping to live a good holy life, but by killing himself.
Death was his only redeemable action.

The theme of redemption in death is a pretty common one. It may be nationalistic, but I think its also a morality tale. If god gives you a taboo you better keep it.

wa:do

 

[lunamoth]

Besides Jay's post #9, which reflects how I see the Samson story as well, it strikes me that it is the last sotry in the cycles of the Judges. Judges starts out with the prototype judges of Israel, i.e. Othniel, and the judges seem to decline in honor and wisdom throughout the book, setting the stage for the demand by the Israelites for a king.

2c