Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
God! Just swat down the knee jerks and smack up those who wouldn't know a loss of rights if it bit them on the face.
They'll get up and keep going at it.
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San Fran’s DA mandates use of preferred pronouns
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
They'll get up and keep going at it.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Nobody cares.
The idea is that a workplace is a place to work. It requires some harmony. For that reason you don't let employees insult and harass each other as to keep the work environment focused on work and running as smoothly as possible.
It's not a slippery slope. It's not an attack on personal freedom. It's not an attack on democracy. It's not new nor special. It's not unreasonable.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Yeah. We just can't be letting the state mandate the records be more consistent and not letting people answer what they think something should be.
Amd when Jordan Peterson predicted doom and martyrdom for refusing to comply? He tripped and fell face first into a pile of crap.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
office policy applies to those people working for him
what is wrong with him requiring his employees to be kind and considerate to those people that they “serve”?
it would be wonderful to see more of the same
That's not true for steel. Strain hardening gives the steel a higher yield strength, but it makes the steel rigid and brittle (i.e. more likely to break).
Work hardening - Wikipedia
I was mostly thinking about the last thread like this that @icehorse did. He went on about "compelled speech" in the workplace - in that case, a public school. I responded with a personal story of a time when I had to give compelled speech in my workplace; the speech just had nothing to do with trans people or gender issues.
@icehorse seems to only be concerned with "compelled speech" when it involves treating trans people with respect, which suggests to me that the thing he actually has the problem with is treating trans people with respect.
As for the story in the OP... the DA's office is full of people who have voluntarily accepted the codes of conduct not only of their profession but also of their position as civil servants. These codes generally include obligations like treating clients and fellow professionals with respect, and not bringing their profession or their department into disrepute with their conduct. It's a bit sad that even with all that, it would be necessary to have to tell them that it means that trans coworkers, opposing counsel, court employees, victims of crime, etc. should be treated with respect.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Simple. You don't let people like that bother you.
Just got to be realistic that the world is that way for better or worse. It's a fact of life.
You adapt, overcome, or move on till you come to a place where one is comfortable and reasonably happy.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Well then, you're being a jerk, because you're claiming I'm lying, and I'm not.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Just learn to be polite and mind your own business with your coworkers even if you don't like who they are or what they do in their personal life. If you can't of course your world will be nothing than misery and "forbidden fruits" and attacks on your liberty. You are literally too selfish and antipathic for a productive and happy life in society.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I learned you cannot force the world to change. Even if your in the right.
Let the karma take its own respective course if one cannot rectify the issue.
As for me, I see no point in always trying to change something I have no control over as there's always going to be something or someone, it's essentally fighting nature and sometimes it's not worth it, so I roam to where things are amicable and the chemistry is good.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
You haven't learned much then. The world has changed multiple time thanks to the efforts of people. Hell, when I was born, being gay was considered "bad" and the idea of gay marriage completely non-sense. Today, in my society, it's the opposite. Being homosexual is perfectly acceptable and gay marriage the law of the land for over a decade and even suggesting reverting course is considered at best ridiculous. All that is thanks to decades of fight, protest and education from gay rights activists.
Except you do have controls on your own words and you can absolutely learn to be polite towards others. Most people learn it quite well when they are little. Very few people are unlucky enough to be born with some defect that makes it hard if not impossible to learn empathy and basic courtesy.
Can you really not see the difference between things you are not allowed to say (e.g. shouting "fire" in the theater), vs. being told there are certain things you MUST say?
epronovost
Well-Known Member
You didn't read the post you are quoting because I specifically gave an example that isn't related to imminent danger or false alarm. I'll repeat it again. You are already not allowed to insult, belittle or harass your fellow colleagues, employees or boss. If you try you expose yourself to severe reprimand, losing your job or even lawsuits.
And those are things you CANNOT say. That's different than being told what you MUST say, right?
epronovost
Well-Known Member
You can't willfully misgender cisgender employees, coworkers and bosses either. It would be perceived as an insult in pretty much all cases. Thus you MUST gender them correctly. If you can't say insults, you must say other things.
You don't say a peep about "compelled speech" except when the speech involves treating a trans person with respect.
If you were watching someone else behave the way you have been, what conclusions would you draw?
Umm all work places restricts “free speech” in some form or another. Do you honestly think I could go into work tomorrow and call my coworker a slur, just for an example? I’d be disciplined if not fired if I did that. I’m still allowed to say whatever I want. But there will always be consequences. Social or work related. Used to be slurs were just everyday speech. Try using one in polite society and see for yourself.
Same thing is happening with pronouns. Doesn’t cost me any skin off my nose to be polite to someone. Apparently having manners and showing others respect violates free speech or something these days.
This is merely an update to societal rules. Happens all the time given how language and societal rules tends to evolve over time
You mean like the mandatory oath that every lawyer in California has to swear before they're allowed to practice law?
That oath is compelled speech.
Interesting that when presented with someone who's required to swear out that oath AND refer to a trans woman as "Ms. ____" or "her," you focus on the pronouns and give the oath a pass.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
A DA can legislate?