Sans Cognition

[`mud]

Afterlife and beyond
A whole bunch of people think that there's some cognizant quality,
that follows along with one's 'soul' long after one's death.
They don't understand that congnitive processes stop with death.
They think that there's some kind of heaven, into which vastness, they will enter !
Some will be buried, cremated, rotted, were eaten, and on and on,
but we will be dead, our cognition gone.
Your eyes will not see,
any wonderous visions of clouds everywhere,
and from where did the robes come ?
Since one losses one's skin when dead,
what's heaven feel like, smooth and creamy ?
How does it smell, a lot of farts out there !
Oh crap, where's my nose, I think I left it behind,
No visions, no smells, where in the hell is my tongue ??
But....there's no visions, I think we don't eat.
Damn...one can't do much, without cognition !
How does one find the bugle to blow when it's time to go ?
Damn again, where the hell are my lips,
all I do is go "WHOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHH",
and still no bugle, where's that throne,
I have to sit down for a while.
I think I just bumped in to a big angel,
or a giant dragonfly, I don't have eyes you know !
................
OH well...enough of this,
NuffStuff
~
'mud

 

[George-ananda]

Afterlife and beyond
A whole bunch of people think that there's some cognizant quality,
that follows along with one's 'soul' long after one's death.
They don't understand that congnitive processes stop with death.
They think that there's some kind of heaven, into which vastness, they will enter !
Some will be buried, cremated, rotted, were eaten, and on and on,
but we will be dead, our cognition gone.
Your eyes will not see,
any wonderous visions of clouds everywhere,
and from where did the robes come ?
Since one losses one's skin when dead,
what's heaven feel like, smooth and creamy ?
How does it smell, a lot of farts out there !
Oh crap, where's my nose, I think I left it behind,
No visions, no smells, where in the hell is my tongue ??
But....there's no visions, I think we don't eat.
Damn...one can't do much, without cognition !
How does one find the bugle to blow when it's time to go ?
Damn again, where the hell are my lips,
all I do is go "WHOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHH",
and still no bugle, where's that throne,
I have to sit down for a while.
I think I just bumped in to a big angel,
or a giant dragonfly, I don't have eyes you know !
................
OH well...enough of this,
NuffStuff
~
'mud

You placed this in the debate section? I do not believe consciousness is a process of the brain; bigger philosophers than us can debate that.

My belief in the afterlife is based on my study of tons of paranormal cases where the 'one and done' position you espouse can not make sense of some real data. Some of the key fields that forced to change from my old 'one and done' position are Veridical Near Death Experiences, after death communications (ADC) with loved ones, spirit communications, childhood reincarnation memories, and a few more things. I am aware of the skeptical positions to all these phenomena but I objectively don't think they have an answer for so many of the stronger cases. I am convinced beyond reasonable doubt of an afterlife and that our physical life is a very veiled and restricted one but is a good place to learn some lessons about love and detachment.

 

[Nous]

but we will be dead, our cognition gone.
Your eyes will not see,

Just a few days ago I was reading something that referred to a 1990s study by Kenneth Ring that found that isn't uncommon for people blind from birth to have NDEs in which they could see. It was pointed out that blind people do not often report having visual experiences in their ordinary dreams. One such blind NDEr said that being able to see during this NDE was "frightening".

 

[Demonslayer]

One such blind NDEr said that being able to see during this NDE was "frightening".

He probably saw my Uncle Larry at the beach. Brrrrrrrrrr, scary stuff!

 

[George-ananda]

Just a few days ago I was reading something that referred to a 1990s study by Kenneth Ring that found that isn't uncommon for people blind from birth to have NDEs in which they could see. It was pointed out that blind people do not often report having visual experiences in their ordinary dreams. One such blind NDEr said that being able to see during this NDE was "frightening".

In fact there is even a book since then on NDE's of the blind by a Dr. Sharon Cooper

Mindsight: Near-Death and Out-of-Body Experiences in the Blind

 

[Nous]

My belief in the afterlife is based on my study of tons of paranormal cases where the 'one and done' position you espouse can not make sense of some real data. Some of the key fields that forced to change from my old 'one and done' position are Veridical Near Death Experiences, after death communications (ADC) with loved ones

I have a friend who is a vociferously adamant atheist who tells about having a vivid and highly symbolic dream about her father--whom she had not seen or talked to in about 40 years--on the night that she subsequently learned he had unexpectedly died of a heart attack. It was a dream in which they accidentally met at a bus stop and had a long, nice conversation in which they sort of resolved things and forgave each other about their highly difficult (non-)relationship. Then the bus came and he boarded and it carried him away. He was always riding the bus. My friend says that she was telling her husband about the dream the next morning when she got the call from her brother about their father dying that night. There is definitely no reason to doubt any of this story.

 

[Nous]

In fact there is even a book since then on NDE's of the blind by a Dr. Sharon Cooper

Mindsight: Near-Death and Out-of-Body Experiences in the Blind

Thank you for this. I have (many years ago) read at least a couple of Ring's books. There are lots of really good, insightful and intelligent books on the topic. I find the topic of NDEs challenging and inspiring.

 

[George-ananda]

I have a friend who is a vociferously adamant atheist who tells about having a vivid and highly symbolic dream about her father--whom she had not seen or talked to in about 40 years--on the night that she subsequently learned he had unexpectedly died of a heart attack. It was a dream in which they accidentally met at a bus stop and had a long, nice conversation in which they sort of resolved things and forgave each other about their highly difficult (non-)relationship. Then the bus came and he boarded and it carried him away. He was always riding the bus. My friend says that she was telling her husband about the dream the next morning when she got the call from her brother about their father dying that night. There is definitely no reason to doubt any of this story.

I notice that atheism and materialism are generally assumed to go hand-in-hand. Once many people stop believing in our culture's Judeo-Christian God, they seem like they automatically shut down against any paranormal phenomena. That is a shame in my view.

 

[Nous]

I notice that atheism and materialism are generally assumed to go hand-in-hand. Once many people stop believing in our culture's Judeo-Christian God, they seem like they automatically shut down against any paranormal phenomena. That is a shame in my view.

True. My friend who had the dream, I think, can't be said to be a materialist (whatever that is). In fact, I hate to say this but her vociferous atheism is rather shallow, in that it is actually just an anti-Christian fundamentalist thing. (She had a bad experience with a fundamentalist Christian group as a child.) But she is also rather knowledgeable of modern physics (her son-in-law is a physicist), and she is surprisingly both open-minded and critical about stuff that is or would be called "paranormal".

 

[George-ananda]

True. My friend who had the dream, I think, can't be said to be a materialist (whatever that is). In fact, I hate to say this but her vociferous atheism is rather shallow, in that it is actually just an anti-Christian fundamentalist thing. (She had a bad experience with a fundamentalist Christian group as a child.) But she is also rather knowledgeable of modern physics (her son-in-law is a physicist), and she is surprisingly both open-minded and critical about stuff that is or would be called "paranormal".

So what is her current opinion on her experience with her father?

 

[Nous]

So what is her current opinion on her experience with her father?

I think she would say that he somehow communicated with her in that dream. I think that (most days) she would agree with the proposition that consciousness is not (necessarily) confined to the inside of one's skull. I know she would agree that the world is weirder than we can generally imagine. That leaves open about endless possibilities.

You know, like me, she's kind of difficult to pin down on issues of metaphysics.

 

[atanu]

Afterlife and beyond
A whole bunch of people think that there's some cognizant quality,
that follows along with one's 'soul' long after one's death.
They don't understand that congnitive processes stop with death.
They think that there's some kind of heaven, into which vastness, they will enter !
Some will be buried, cremated, rotted, were eaten, and on and on,
but we will be dead, our cognition gone.
Your eyes will not see,
any wonderous visions of clouds everywhere,
and from where did the robes come ?
Since one losses one's skin when dead,
what's heaven feel like, smooth and creamy ?
How does it smell, a lot of farts out there !
Oh crap, where's my nose, I think I left it behind,
No visions, no smells, where in the hell is my tongue ??
But....there's no visions, I think we don't eat.
Damn...one can't do much, without cognition !
How does one find the bugle to blow when it's time to go ?
Damn again, where the hell are my lips,
all I do is go "WHOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHH",
and still no bugle, where's that throne,
I have to sit down for a while.
I think I just bumped in to a big angel,
or a giant dragonfly, I don't have eyes you know !
................mud
OH well...enough of this,
NuffStuff
~
'mud

The processes that led to mud's apparent birth, life, and destruction will go on, whether cognition of individual 'mud' persists or rots.

You seem to mis-understand or mis-represent some of us. We say that it brings peace when the source of individual "i" consciousness (along with its cohorts -- the sense consciousnesses), is known as unborn and unformed, instead of being born of a body.

Well. Enough said.

 

[`mud]

I'm not sure whether I like the 'edit' or the original !

"The processes that led to mud's apparent birth, life, and destruction will go on, whether cognition of individual 'mud' persists or rots. Cognition is primeval, older than creation of mud's eyes, nose, and skin."

or the edit:

"The processes that led to mud's apparent birth, life, and destruction will go on, whether cognition of individual 'mud' persists or rots.

You mis-represent some of us. We say that it brings peace when the source of individual "i" consciousness (along with its cohorts -- the sense consciousnesses), is known as unborn and unformed, instead of being born of a body.

Well. Enough said."
~~~~~~~~~
I don't believe in post death cognition !
Cognition is a process of gnosis and life !
And of course.......Stuff.
~
'mud

 

[atanu]

I don't believe in post death cognition !
'mud

That is interesting actually. You indeed mis-represent some of us.

 

[`mud]

Cognition of realistic objects influencing one's self,
awake or asleep, is a process of living beings.
I can't believe that anyone can really believe that gnosis,
and of course cognition ceases to survive one's being.
Did I say that right ? No gnosis beyond life.
Leave all those memories of you by others, suffice.
There's no cognition in your grocery bag.
Born with ability to increase one's gnosis,
but one can't take it with one.
~
'mud