Sanskrit or English for home puja prayers? (yes ocpd)

[Vinayaka]

Skanda Sashti Kavacham to Lord Muruga

[youtube]3RIPz_mP_VI[/youtube]
Kanda Sashti Kavasam - YouTube One of my favorite songs ...in this case set with the video of a somewhat elaborate puja. (An understatement)

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Even bells are sectarian. I won't use anything except the Nandi bells, unless there is just none other available. Bells, like Sanskrit, too have a sound that is specific to a particular devonic hierarchy.

New one to me thanks !

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

=Jainarayan;3322007

I don't do puja at all now days, i focus more on trying to understand the purpose of the Veda Samhita text.

And when i used to do puja it was not in Sanskrit nor in English, it was in Hindi.

The Indian Hindus do puja in all the different languages of India, so i think Puja if coming from the core of our Atma is all that is required the language does not matter.

 

[VajraYosid]

Sanskrit is by far the better language to use. One might even say that the Vedas are essentially another language, decoded into Sanskrit. Sanskrit is chosen because of its high degree of concordance between the sound and the object indicated, and its natural euphony. Each meter accords distinct meaning, accent and so forth.

If you can do it in sanskrit, by all means do so, halting or not, the prayers are far more potent. Else too much lost in translation, even into other Indian languages, with the possible exception of Tamil - which represents a different stream anyhow.

 

[Jainarayan]

Thanks for the p.o.v. and advice, this is what I wanted to hear. My coworker said his wife's Sanskrit is so bad she does home puja in Gujarati. I've been practicing reciting the prayers, slowly to get the rhythm and stress accent. One of the things I found that helps is when a transliteration shows the long vowels. Otherwise I think Sanskrit places stress on the 3rd from last (antepenultimate) syllable if there are no long vowels. For example, I think the blue would be where the stress is on the short vowel? Except for Raghu-pati? If this is the case, then I'm on my way to being able to intone Sanskrit.

Atulita-Bala-DhAmam Hema-ShailAbha-Deham
Danuja-Vana-KrshAnum JnyAninAm-Agragannyam |
Sakala-Gunna-NidhAnam VAnarAnnAm-AdhIsham
Raghupati-Priya-Bhaktam VAtAtmajam NamAmi ||

The sloka came from here Atulita Bala Dhamam - in sanskrit with meaning - sloka on Bhakta Hanuman

I think the temple offers beginning lessons in Sanskrit. There are some on YT also. I have a basic understanding of the nominal inflection and verb conjugation, though I can't read devanagari for my life. It would probably be best to learn to read and write devanagari.

 

[Breathe]

I think the temple offers beginning lessons in Sanskrit. There are some on YT also. I have a basic understanding of the nominal inflection and verb conjugation, though I can't read devanagari for my life. It would probably be best to learn to read and write devanagari.

Agniveer.com does some pretty decent Sanskrit lessons (did a few but not many); they're reliant on Devanagari script, though - but it introduces it small amounts at a time, so you'll end up getting used to it. Open up Wiki or another site which lists the Devanagari script and you should be okay-ish to go.

 

[Jainarayan]

Thanks. I do know, and have seen that devanagari script and the phonemes are arranged very logically. Any language that uses a script other than the Roman begins its lessons with learning the alphabet, syllabary or abugida (which the Indian languages use). I'm going to have to make a commitment to the project.

 

[Aum_425]

I would agree with a post Vinayaka responded with.

Ultimately, Sanskrit holds an intrinsic value that no other language can hold a light to. Still, we were not all born in cultures that teach sanskrit, or even cultures that know of sanskrit, so it is fine to learn in English.

When I first started, I would go back and forth, that is to say, I would perform a full puja in sankrit (stumbling through) and then the next day I would read it aloud in English. Now, I read the sanskrit and read the translation while I chant. This helps me connect the translation, the grammar and the devanagri together.

Good Luck,
Hope this Helps!

 

[Jainarayan]

Thanks. What I've done is, when I copy a sloka or prayer from an internet site, I arrange it so that the rhythm works. I know that in Sanskrit a word or phrase can be very long, with no break. I'm learning enough to know where a break can go to keep the rhythm of a chant rather than just reading it. For example, when I hear recordings of deities' gayatri mantras, the rhythm and intonation is always the same. Those I have down pat. Do you know how long it took me to learn to chant...

Aum Namo Hiranyabahave Hiranyavaranaya Hiranyaroopaya
Hiranyapataye Ambikapataya Umapataye Pashupataye Namo Namaha

Ishaana Sarvavidyanam
Ishvara Sarvabhutanam
Brahmadhipati Brahmanodhipati
Brahma Shivo Me Astu Sadashivom

Aum Tatpurushaya Vidmahe
Vakvishudhaya Dhimahi
Tanno Shiva Prachodayat

Aum Mahadevaya Vidmahe
Rudramurthaye Dhimahi
Tanno Shiva Prachodayat

Namaste Astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya
Mahadevaya Tryambakaya Tripurantakaya
Trikagnikalaya Kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya
Mrtyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya
Shriman Mahadevaya Namah

Well, let's say a long time. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Aum_425]

Lol, indeed it does.

Also, once you get familiarized with the sanskrit meters (anustup, tristup, gayatri, etc.) you will be able to bring the meters you know to any new sloka that you wish to learn.

 

[Jainarayan]

I found another site with some slokas. Sanskrit Slokas for Devas, Devathas and for Nithya Karmas (daily activities) I've been practicing reciting them, mentally to get a feel for the rhythm and meter. I'm going to read up on anustup and tristup. Thanks for mentioning them.

 

[Aum_425]

Of course!

Let me know if I can help

 

[Jainarayan]

Thanks, I may take you up on it. I'm not shy about asking questions.

 

[Viraja]

[youtube]3RIPz_mP_VI[/youtube]
Kanda Sashti Kavasam - YouTube One of my favorite songs ...in this case set with the video of a somewhat elaborate puja. (An understatement)

Apologize for the delay... I love Skanda Sashti Kavacham. I used to recite that everyday long time ago. Then for a while I changed to Subhrahmanya Bhujangam (Sanskrit) and was reciting that all along. However Subrahmanya Bhujangam is a lengthy sloka. Me being a Vaishnava, am also reciting slokas to Ram, Narasimha, Balaji and so forth and hence these days I am not reciting Subrahmanya stotras but still I respect him by offering daily naivedya. To me, I envision my son as Subrahmanya born so Subrahmanya means something very special to me.

 

[Jainarayan]

Also, once you get familiarized with the sanskrit meters (anustup, tristup, gayatri, etc.) you will be able to bring the meters you know to any new sloka that you wish to learn.

I'm going to read up on anustup and tristup. Thanks for mentioning them.

Of course!

Let me know if I can help

I think I'm getting it.

Anuṣṭubh = 4 lines of 8 syllables; Triṣṭubhh = 4 lines of 11 syllables (Wiki is my friend ). It seems that some slokas have mixed meters:

Anuṣṭubh:
Namaste Narasimhāya
Prahladahlada-dayine
Hiranyakashipor vakshaha
Shila-tanka-nakhalaye

Triṣṭubh:
Ito Nrisimhah parato Nrisimho
Yato yato yami tato Nrisimhah
Bahir Nrisimho hridaye Nrisimho
Nrisimham adim sharanam prapadye

Mixed?:
Om namō bhagavathe thubhyam (A)
Purushāya mahāthmane (A)
Harayōdhbhutha Nārasimhāya (T)
Brahmanē paramāthmanē (A)

Some seem to break the rules, I think because of sandhi and "artistic license":

There is, however, considerable freedom in relation to the strict metrical canons of Classical Sanskrit prosody, which Arnold (1905) holds to the credit of the Vedic bards:

Vedic meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If this is all correct, I will study the slokas I've selected, see that they fall into one of the metric categories, and re-transcribe them in my little book:

There are several Chandas. The seven main ones are:
Gayatri: 3 padas of 8 syllables containing 24 syllables in each stanza.
Ushnuk : 4 padas of 7 syllables containing 28 syllables in each stanza.
Anustubh: 4 padas of 8 syllables containing 32 syllables in each stanza. This is the typical shloka of classical Sanskrit poetry
Brihati : 4 padas (8 + 8 + 12 + 8) containing 36 syllables in each stanza.
Pankti : 4 padas (sometimes 5 padas) containing 40 syllables in each stanza.
Tristubh: 4 padas of 11 syllables containing 44 syllabes in each stanza
Jagati: 4 padas of 12 syllables containing 48 syllables in each stanza
There are several others such as:
Virāj: 4 padas of 10 syllables
Kakubh

Vedic meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This definitely makes learning the chants easier. This is why we pray:

Deepajyothi parabrahma
Deepa sarva tamopahaha
Deepena saadhyate saram
Sandhyaa deepo namostute (btw, that was anuṣṭubh, as is the Maha Mantra. ).

 

[Jainarayan]

An update (for anyone who cares )...

I selected, printed and put together my little booklet of slokas in Sanskrit. It's not a booklet yet, it's 4x6" postcard stock I print on both sides, all lined up, justified, bordered and prettied up. It even has a cover and a back page. That's the ocpd. I'll probably have it coil-bound so it will be easier to read from, er I mean chant. And chant I did. In Sanskrit (and Tibetan for the bodhisattvas) that sucks like you can't believe. :biglaugh: I can whiz through some of my Sanskrit slokas because I've been using them for a long time. It's the new ones I have to get the feel of the metres for. I can just imagine the deities giggling (but with love) at my attempt (as if they have nothing better to do ). Anyway, I chanted out loud. My best one was actually the Pushpam Mantra. I read and chanted it from my cards, but the chanting was exactly like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKE38CBc3rs

And I guess the more I practice my slokas, just reading them, practicing, the more I'm praying.

 

[Shântoham]

And I guess the more I practice my slokas, just reading them, practicing, the more I'm praying.

Namaskāram

Don’t forget the Svāras…

Pranāms

 

[Jainarayan]

Tones? Please do expand.

 

[Shântoham]

Tones? Please do expand.

Namaskāram

It is said that in order for the Mantra to reach its intended target it must be chanted with the proper Svāras. A Mantra chanted improperly will miss its target and produce an adverse effect.
When chanting proper pronunciation is the key. Even if we are not experts and have not learnt from a Guru, when we chant Mantras or do Kirtan, we should pay attention to the pronunciation and to the Svāras. Mistakes in chanting can cause a wide spectrum of problems – from merely nullifying its effect, to creating negative Karma or physical and emotional imbalances, some of which can be very detrimental for us. That is why at the end of rituals and chanting we chant a Mantra asking for forgiveness in case of any mistakes.
This are the most common mistakes: 1) improper pronunciation; 2) improper stress on syllables; 3) incorrect meter; 4) not following rules specific to a particular Mantra; 5) chanting certain Mantras in random tunes.
For example, Om Namaḥ Śivāya is a Mantra while Govinda Jaya Jaya Gopāla Jaya Jaya, is just a chant and not a Mantra. Both can be chanted to many different tunes – but they must be pronounced correctly. Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare can be sung in different tunes, as it is a Pūraṇic Mantra. However, stretching a syllable and chanting Hāre Rāma, implies that Lord Rāma is a loser.
Vedic chanting is bound by a set of three notes called Svāras. There are three Svāras for Vedic chant, in comparison to seven for music. This is one of the differences between Vedic chant and music. The three Svāras are called Udātta, Anudātta, and Svarita.
Udātta represents the higher note - Uccaiḥ Udāttaḥ - and is indicated by a vertical line above a syllable. For example in the following verse - śaṃ no mitra śaṃ varuṇaḥ - the vertical line is above No and above the Ru of varuṇaḥ. It denotes the Udātta note, and those syllables must be recited on a note higher than the preceding one.
Anudātta represents the lower note - Nīcaiḥ Anudāttaḥ - and is indicated by a horizontal line below the syllable. For example, in the same verse - śaṃ no mitra śaṃ varuṇaḥ - the horizontal line is below Mi of mitra. It denotes the Anudātta note, and must be recited on a note lower than the following one.
Svarita represents the neutral note - Samāhāraḥ Svaritaḥ - and is indicated by absence of any line above o below the syllable. For example, in śaṃ no mitra śaṃ varuṇaḥ the syllable śam before no mitra is in Svarita note and must be recited accordingly.

Pranāms

 

[Jainarayan]

OK, thanks for that. I thought that's what it was, I've read of some of this before. What I don't understand is that if someone has a speech impediment, is their devotion worthless? Or an accent... everyone speaks with an accent. Some non-native speakers of a language simply can't produce a sound because their native language doesn't have it. Native Japanese speakers could never pronounce Maa Kali's mantras, because Japanese does not have an l sound. It comes out "kaa-ree" (American r not a tapped or trilled r like Spanish). How do we get around that? I've even heard the priests stumble or come to an outright stop. Is the puja worthless? This disturbs me.