Satan, Devil, Demons, Magic, Pagans, etc, all fake?

[Pastek]

I don't see why I would give nightmares to people, though that is in interesting idea.

Hem, in fact i wanted to say "do you have nightmares ?"
My mistake !

But I refuse to believe in supernatural things.

But why not ?

How do you interpret this for exemple :

27.When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs.

28.When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”

29.For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.

And after that people were afraid and run away saying everywere talking about when the demons came out of the man.

It's not a parable of Jesus, it seems to be a testimony of what Luke saw.
And also we notice that people were afraid after that of Jesus. So, i don't know how it's possible to take it in a non litteral sense.

 

[Vultar]

The different paranormal entities and practises you speak of are simply misunderstood. As with things from anchient times, the true meanings and purposes have been lost and they seem much more mysterious.

Take "magic" for one thing. There is really nothing magical about it if you understand what it really is. The problem is people forget about the mundane and only remember and pass on the exciting parts. With magic, there are things like potions. Most of these are simply what we today would call medicine, pyrotechnics etc. In the past they used things like bark, parts of animals etc instead of todays version of just using the same chemicals that were found in the bark and animal parts.

If 1000 years ago, someone figured out how to make an explosive by mixing certain items... it was magic....

The same goes for the different rituals, people today do them without knowing what they are causing to happen. Usually the rituals were used to trick ones own mind into using its higher powers. Even the people back then really didn't know that is what they were doing. they just knew it worked.

As for the devil etc, they are just spirits that have been given titles by people. They are no different then any other spirit people have seen throughout time and to this day. They have little power to do anything to us and are lucky if they can communicate or knock something over. People actually have more ability to interact spiritually then spirits do, they just don't know how...

 

[helpmeplease]

I believe wicked spirits, including the Devil, are real and vicious. (Mark 5:2-5) The Bible clearly identifies who these spirits are, how they became wicked, and what their motivation is. (Revelation 12:7-12) The Bible is a definitive record of man's history, and does provide detailed chronology of events relating to God's purposes.
It is not the Bible that is "messed up", in my opinion, but rather those who claim to teach the Bible but instead misrepresent what it teaches. In fact, the Bible is the best, most reliable source of information about the Devil and other wicked spirits.

Have you ever met one? Or did they only exist thousands of years ago.

 

[Infinitum]

Personally, do you guys think the entity described in the bible as malignant is real? I mean the bible is messed up because it doesn't always tell you when this actually happened and this didn't, symbolic or not, neopagans, satanists (who don't believe in the Satan from the bible (lol?) Magic, demons, possessions, I mean SOOO MUCHH STUFFF do any of you think some is real and is there logical/substantial proof for some?

Pagans and witches, they're popular sort of, and are involved in "magic" right? But is there proof of it? How about India and Chakra? I mean ZOMG so many theories!! GAH

thx

Satan? I don't think he's real, but he represents an idea that still has value to us today.

the Devil? A demonisation of earlier deities mixed with Jewish mythology. He's cute and still fascinates people, but that doesn't make him real.

Demons? This depends entirely on how you define a demon. The idea of demons as malicious entities is pretty young, originally refering to guiding spirits or lesser deities. In early Greek Bible translations the word was still used in this sense to refer to "gods of the heathens" or unclean spirits. I don't believe in demons in the modern evil sense, but I'm open to the posibility that daemons (original Greek interpretation) exist in some form.

Possessions? Forget about it. I've seen people who've thought they're possessed, but I really don't think this can actually happen.

Magic? The way we look at magic is also relatively new. The word first appears in the Middle Ages in the meaning of "art of influencing events and producing marvels using hidden natural forces". The term is closely tied to words refering to priests as well as to learned people in general. Although many ancient scholars definitely believed in some things we now would call supernatural, it's more important to understand how they approached these things. I think had science at the time proved their beliefs wrong they would have embraced the new knowledge without hesitation. So, when we today talk about magic we have the problem of part of the people using the modern interpretation of the term, some others using it in a more traditional sense. I believe in magic in the old sense, as a way of exploring reality and the psyche.

Pagans? Pagans are Pagans. I respect the Neopagan movements, especially the ones that work hard to reconstruct old beliefs and practices. Paganism is part of our culture and the myths can tell us much about how our ancestors lived and how they viewed the world. You don't have to think there is a literal Odin out there somewhere to be able to appreciate the beauty of the spiritual heritage we've got. On the other hand I think that when you get closer to understanding how people originally viewed their deities you also find they make much more sense from a modern perspective. People don't change that much in a few thousand years.

 

[gnostic]

I believe wicked spirits, including the Devil, are real and vicious. (Mark 5:2-5) The Bible clearly identifies who these spirits are, how they became wicked, and what their motivation is. (Revelation 12:7-12)

Wow! Satan and demons are real!

If I not mistaken, god and his horde of angels will supposedly bring about destruction of mankind, according to the Revelation, and only a mere 144,000 will be saved, out of today's 7 billion people.

Who will bring about diseases, famines, wars and death to countless billions?

Who is evil?

I think god is the evil one, if tens of millions of children will be condemned in hell. And his merry group of angels/horsemen.

 

[Jacksnyte]

It's not a parable of Jesus, it seems to be a testimony of what Luke saw.
And also we notice that people were afraid after that of Jesus. So, i don't know how it's possible to take it in a non litteral sense.

Luke never met Jesus.

 

[Pastek]

Luke never met Jesus.

Well, this testimony came from one disciple.
I don't know who copy on who, but it was writted on their different Gospels.

 

[jasonwill2]

Hem, in fact i wanted to say "do you have nightmares ?"
My mistake !

][details of my nightmares removed as I realized I talked a bit more personal than I feel comfortable with and as it is the person asking already read and understands it, so it's moot to keep it here=

Those are probably not the kind of nightmares you were looking for, but read into it whatever you must

If 1000 years ago, someone figured out how to make an explosive by mixing certain items... it was magic....

The Chineese were making rockets around 800-900 A.D., and as far as I know they didn't regard it as supernatural.

Have you ever met one? Or did they only exist thousands of years ago.

I know a guy that claims he believes in demons and Satan but says he's never met them... a Youth Pastor actually, which makes it more hilarious. I have met demons though, and possibly Satan, but I'm not entirely sure that was Satan, but it is relatively likely that it was.

Satan? I don't think he's real, but he represents an idea that still has value to us today.

the Devil? A demonisation of earlier deities mixed with Jewish mythology. He's cute and still fascinates people, but that doesn't make him real.

Demons? This depends entirely on how you define a demon. The idea of demons as malicious entities is pretty young, originally refering to guiding spirits or lesser deities. In early Greek Bible translations the word was still used in this sense to refer to "gods of the heathens" or unclean spirits. I don't believe in demons in the modern evil sense, but I'm open to the posibility that daemons (original Greek interpretation) exist in some form.

Possessions? Forget about it. I've seen people who've thought they're possessed, but I really don't think this can actually happen.

Magic? The way we look at magic is also relatively new. The word first appears in the Middle Ages in the meaning of "art of influencing events and producing marvels using hidden natural forces". The term is closely tied to words refering to priests as well as to learned people in general. Although many ancient scholars definitely believed in some things we now would call supernatural, it's more important to understand how they approached these things. I think had science at the time proved their beliefs wrong they would have embraced the new knowledge without hesitation. So, when we today talk about magic we have the problem of part of the people using the modern interpretation of the term, some others using it in a more traditional sense. I believe in magic in the old sense, as a way of exploring reality and the psyche.

Since Satan is a title, it can loosely apply to any deity or entity that fits the semantic meaning. In this sense, Satan exists even if there are no gods. I agree though that with the Devil, it doesn't agree in that sense. "Satan" exists solely because it is a title that can be given to a pre-existing god, which I do with my god, and it's entirely accurate BECAUSE it is a title. If gods and spirits exist, surely there are at least a few that fit the semantic meaning of "Satan".

I mostly agree with what you said about demons.

I am personally unsure about possessions.

I believe that greater magic(k) cast on another person without their knowledge in addition to what you said.

[also doesn't have an opinion on Neo-Pagans due to ignorance on the subject.

 

[Pastek]

Those are probably not the kind of nightmares you were looking for, but read into it whatever you must

You're right, i thought in fact at some terrible nightmares. Because i heard that some people who practice magic or to whom people made magical things had horrible nightmares.
But it seems that you just have normal nightmares.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

You're right, i thought in fact at some terrible nightmares. Because i heard that some people who practice magic or to whom people made magical things had horrible nightmares.
But it seems that you just have normal nightmares.

Hehe...I can attest to this.

The moral of the story: ALWAYS double-check your translations.

 

[jasonwill2]

Hehe...I can attest to this.

The moral of the story: ALWAYS double-check your translations.

Or you could say everything in english? nah that robs some of the effects out of it but since my brain cant comprehend other languages it mostly goes in one ear and the other

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Or you could say everything in english? nah that robs some of the effects out of it but since my brain cant comprehend other languages it mostly goes in one ear and the other

Saying it in English is boring, plus I can't get it past conscious analysis that way. Same reason people chant mantras in other languages, or do rituals in Latin.

 

[nekoboy]

It's hard to prove, but it's fairly safe to say that it is probably real. Some dude I know told me a story about him and a couple of coworkers witnessing witchcraft, and how all of them except for himself dabbled in it for fun. It involved making a bubblegum wrapper smoke and disintegrate. No secrets, no gimmicks, it was legit witchcraft. They all fell violently ill the following day.

 

[jasonwill2]

It's hard to prove, but it's fairly safe to say that it is probably real. Some dude I know told me a story about him and a couple of coworkers witnessing witchcraft, and how all of them except for himself dabbled in it for fun. It involved making a bubblegum wrapper smoke and disintegrate. No secrets, no gimmicks, it was legit witchcraft. They all fell violently ill the following day.

I want to know how to do this, that would be awesome. Do you know how they did it?

 

[Draka]

It's hard to prove, but it's fairly safe to say that it is probably real. Some dude I know told me a story about him and a couple of coworkers witnessing witchcraft, and how all of them except for himself dabbled in it for fun. It involved making a bubblegum wrapper smoke and disintegrate. No secrets, no gimmicks, it was legit witchcraft. They all fell violently ill the following day.

Violently ill the next day? That I doubt and even if they did get sick it more likely had to do with something they ate than attempting magic on a gum wrapper.:areyoucra

 

[jasonwill2]

Violently ill the next day? That I doubt and even if they did get sick it more likely had to do with something they ate than attempting magic on a gum wrapper.:areyoucra

I was wondering about that too, but the power to do something like that would be pretty large and insane, so I thought that maybe it just took a toll on them physically. AFAIK most magic is directed at other minds because the energy produced by the brain is rarely enough to cause overt physical changes like that

 

[Erebus]

Violently ill the next day? That I doubt and even if they did get sick it more likely had to do with something they ate than attempting magic on a gum wrapper.:areyoucra

There's a reason gumwrappermancy is a forbidden art.

A good rule of thumb is to treat stories some dude told you about "this one time..." with a pinch of salt

OP: I can't tell you what is or isn't real out of the list you gave and I certainly can't provide you with any proof either way on an internet forum. What I can do is give you a little fortune cookie. Discoveries you make yourself are far more valuable than those that are presented to you by others as "fact".

 

[Draka]

There's a reason gumwrappermancy is a forbidden art.

A good rule of thumb is to treat stories some dude told you about "this one time..." with a pinch of salt .

At band camp...

 

[Gjallarhorn]

[youtube]DVf2JssdYWg[/youtube]

Possibly magic, most likely charlatanism.

 

[FakeOrReal]

Ok guys, so thanks for your opinions, i've finished reading and it seems interesting, how jasonwill for example has HAD actual experience with demons can you elaborate on how that was?

It might help us get closer to the one truth.

Thanks!

I wish there was a way to know if people aren't lying on the internet ^^