Satan has religions?

[chinu]

Another interesting concept I've encountered with Christians I think worth discussing. Many I've spoken to say "Satan has religions". Apparently, Satan isn't happy merely defying god, but also wants to imitate god by formulating his own religions.

Those who bring this idea forth claim that Satan and his demons create religions in which they play gods and give their followers half truths about goodness and salvation, but never the entire that they claim Christianity offers.

What do you think of this idea?

Honestly, Very good idea.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Breathe]

Really, this could have happened an infinite number of times before.

That's something Hindus would agree with.

 

[Orias]

The universe, in it's most stable theory of creation, was created by the big bang.

Which, could have just been the compression of all of it's matter back into a small point, for it to be exploded into space again.

Really, this could have happened an infinite number of times before.

Ah yes, the Big Crunch.

But who are we to determine what is "eternal" and what isn't?

Ragnarok insists that everything that is, will cease to be.

But then again, anything is possible with our feeble ignorance

 

[Cain]

Another interesting concept I've encountered with Christians I think worth discussing. Many I've spoken to say "Satan has religions". Apparently, Satan isn't happy merely defying god, but also wants to imitate god by formulating his own religions.

Those who bring this idea forth claim that Satan and his demons create religions in which they play gods and give their followers half truths about goodness and salvation, but never the entire that they claim Christianity offers.

What do you think of this idea?

I've read through most of the posts here and am amazed at the indoctrination of everyone.

Satan is a Man-made archetype, a scape-goat for the Abrahamic religions.
Satan is a personification of the Judaic word al-satan or ha-satan (who borrowed it from the Persians' Shaiten) meaning adversary. The word is used more as a descriptive noun or pronoun. A fallen tree preventing a husband from getting to his injured wife would be considered a tree of shaiten, more or less.

Shaiten did not become Satan until much later where Jewish sects / tribes particularly the Essenes who began referring to anyone not an Essene as the Shaiten. Still further on the Roman Christian church decided it was time to personify Shaiten into Satan and have Him become the scapegoat for all evil in the Christian world.

The Name Satan is a tool of the Abrahamic mind used to control its Sheeple.
There is no Satan, just as there is no Abrahamic God, they are archetypes embedded within our unconsciousness.

And lilmama1991, in my opinion, the Jehovah Witnesses Belief System is one of the most delusional and irrational Belief systems I have ever understood and one step away from a cult. The 144,000 that will be saved is enough in itself.

 

[CaptainBritain]

Satanism's claims carry the same weight as Christianity's or any other faith.
.
Its strange the number claims made on this thread that came with not a shred of evidence bar personal opinion.

Claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Two claims with no evidence carry the exact same weight.

Sadly holy books do not constitute evidence, they constitute the claims.

From a human stand point all I can say is that compared to religions that follow an ever loving god, satanists seem to lag behind when it comes to mass slaughter, systemic child abuse, childhood indoctrination (watch jesus camp), knocking at my door to sell me truth at tea time, flying jet planes into buildings, holding back of science, infringement of womens rights, poor treatment of minorities, terrorism, theocratic government, the mutilation of thier childrens genitalia, forced conversions and interference in government and world affairs based on paranoid delusions without evidence.

As far as imaginary friend followers go, there are worse in the world than satanists.

 

[thebigpicture]

Another interesting concept I've encountered with Christians I think worth discussing. Many I've spoken to say "Satan has religions". Apparently, Satan isn't happy merely defying god, but also wants to imitate god by formulating his own religions.

Those who bring this idea forth claim that Satan and his demons create religions in which they play gods and give their followers half truths about goodness and salvation, but never the entire that they claim Christianity offers.

What do you think of this idea?

I will say this...I feel the bible in its entirety has been cunningly used to separate people from the Creator. The bible in and of itself is an intentional tool used to interfere in the relationship with the Creator. It's specifically used to get in the way.

 

[Cain]

The Voice of Reason Speaks!! :bow:

Satanism's claims carry the same weight as Christianity's or any other faith.
.
Its strange the number claims made on this thread that came with not a shred of evidence bar personal opinion.

Claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Two claims with no evidence carry the exact same weight.

Sadly holy books do not constitute evidence, they constitute the claims.

From a human stand point all I can say is that compared to religions that follow an ever loving god, satanists seem to lag behind when it comes to mass slaughter, systemic child abuse, childhood indoctrination (watch jesus camp), knocking at my door to sell me truth at tea time, flying jet planes into buildings, holding back of science, infringement of womens rights, poor treatment of minorities, terrorism, theocratic government, the mutilation of thier childrens genitalia, forced conversions and interference in government and world affairs based on paranoid delusions without evidence.

As far as imaginary friend followers go, there are worse in the world than satanists.

 

[Orias]

Satanism's claims carry the same weight as Christianity's or any other faith.
.
Its strange the number claims made on this thread that came with not a shred of evidence bar personal opinion.

Well if your going to attempt to speak for Satanism than sure, but that is a generalized claim in and of itself that holds no evidence. Satanism is not a faith, faith is not a requirment since there is nothing proposed by Satanism that attempts to make you decide off a "whim", or at least that is in my personal experience, since I speak as a Satanist and not for Satanism.

I realize you probably didn't read through the entire thread, which is ok considering the amount of posts in here, but your second statement here is false as well.

Claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, positive claims require positive evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You sound like an Australian guy that I just got done debating with, this statement itself requires support , and the last guy decided getting personal was more conducive than actually sticking to the OP.

Two claims with no evidence carry the exact same weight.

"God" exists, I am sure carries far more less weight in the scientific community than saying that "Dark matter/energy" exists.

Both are unproven and untestable, or appear to be so. The thing about claims is that there is subjected perceived evidence behind them, because other or a majority of people deny it doesn't automatically make it "false".

Sadly holy books do not constitute evidence, they constitute the claims.

I agree, "Satanism" doesn't possess such things.

From a human stand point all I can say is that compared to religions that follow an ever loving god, satanists seem to lag behind when it comes to mass slaughter, systemic child abuse, childhood indoctrination (watch jesus camp), knocking at my door to sell me truth at tea time, flying jet planes into buildings, holding back of science, infringement of womens rights, poor treatment of minorities, terrorism, theocratic government, the mutilation of thier childrens genitalia, forced conversions and interference in government and world affairs based on paranoid delusions without evidence.

As far as imaginary friend followers go, there are worse in the world than satanists.

I agree, but as for the imaginary part I can safely assume that you probably don't know much about Satanism, which is ok since half the people that posted here really have no idea about it maybe except for Cain and Mestemia.

Even those who consider themselves Luciferians usually don't know much about Satanism until they practice it, the same goes for the Opposite.

Here in the LHP most of us don't discriminate boarders, and learn from that which teaches us.

 

[CaptainBritain]

Well if your going to attempt to speak for Satanism than sure, but that is a generalized claim in and of itself that holds no evidence. Satanism is not a faith, faith is not a requirment since there is nothing proposed by Satanism that attempts to make you decide off a "whim", or at least that is in my personal experience, since I speak as a Satanist and not for Satanism.

I realize you probably didn't read through the entire thread, which is ok considering the amount of posts in here, but your second statement here is false as well.



You sound like an Australian guy that I just got done debating with, this statement itself requires support , and the last guy decided getting personal was more conducive than actually sticking to the OP.



"God" exists, I am sure carries far more less weight in the scientific community than saying that "Dark matter/energy" exists.

Both are unproven and untestable, or appear to be so. The thing about claims is that there is subjected perceived evidence behind them, because other or a majority of people deny it doesn't automatically make it "false".



I agree, "Satanism" doesn't possess such things.




I agree, but as for the imaginary part I can safely assume that you probably don't know much about Satanism, which is ok since half the people that posted here really have no idea about it maybe except for Cain and Mestemia.

Even those who consider themselves Luciferians usually don't know much about Satanism until they practice it, the same goes for the Opposite.

Here in the LHP most of us don't discriminate boarders, and learn from that which teaches us.

on the claims without evidence bit, if you tell me you have an invisible unicorn and provide no evidence to back up that claim when asked, what evidence would be needed to dismiss the claim...none..it just a claim.

With talk of religion and things unseen, every claim has equall merit until demonstrated otherwise.

The nature of what classes as hard evidence is an interesting topic but I thinkn as a general rule scrutiny divides the hard from the soft from the discredited.

I think they have some data supporting dark matter in the form of some cluster shot or other, will have to look up cos its way over my head hehe
For some science stuff like physics I will admit to accepting experts verdicts on faith because im too thick if stephen hawkins doesnt spell it out in english but thats largely because im aware of how savage peer review is.

As to the rest, you are right, ive no clue about satanism or its various sections of thought, my post was simply aimed at the snobbery thats been rampant.
Which you cant have failed to miss,

Its the same as another thread on here where a girl, asks why should she reject her own experience of God/spirits etc for that of anothers book.

and hey presto the im right everybody else is wrong gang arrived,

I may be an Atheist but I am willing to concede that I could be wrong in that world view, infact I want to be shown im wrong if thats the case but that said when every body is throwing jacks on the table to try and trump another jack it does sound hollow.

Like you said probably hardly anybody knows much about your world view, how much more unreasonable is it to scoff and call my world view better and yours meaningless?

I deffo got the jist that, thats whats been thrown in at stages,

 

[Orias]

on the claims without evidence bit, if you tell me you have an invisible unicorn and provide no evidence to back up that claim when asked, what evidence would be needed to dismiss the claim...none..it just a claim.

I agree, but I realize that your example is "just a claim" as well .

Basically when it comes down to it, it's a "he said, she said" type of thing.

With talk of religion and things unseen, every claim has equall merit until demonstrated otherwise.

To the outsider maybe, but not to the person making the claim. This is another good example of that

The nature of what classes as hard evidence is an interesting topic but I thinkn as a general rule scrutiny divides the hard from the soft from the discredited.

Ears don't possess the bias of "credit", comprehending and understanding the words spoken do.

Anyone can make anything out of an argument that they either like or dislike, knowing the topic or even listening to the Opposition plays little role in people's decisions.

Of course, that has been proven wrong many times, but it still has yet to be set in concrete.

I think they have some data supporting dark matter in the form of some cluster shot or other, will have to look up cos its way over my head hehe

Yea but the thing about theories is that they are theories.

If it was law it would be different

I've studied a lot on dark matter/energy and I can agree with a lot of the premises but I still realize the potential for it to be proven wrong, and I still attempt to prove it wrong just because that sort of thing is within my Nature.

You'll find that there isn't a single One of my own views that I haven't challenged myself and are capable of disowning.

For some science stuff like physics I will admit to accepting experts verdicts on faith because im too thick if stephen hawkins doesnt spell it out in english but thats largely because im aware of how savage peer review is.

I am sure you can come to your own agreeable thoughts instead of some "credited scientist" who has done nothing to contribute to the real world, since metaphysical worlds only contribute to what we think is "mind blowing" or "cool" or "deep". Given the pay, sure he lives well for not making the world a better place economically, environmentally, and even philosophically.

It bothers me to see that people tend to follow the close minded more than the open minded (I don't think you're One of these people).

As to the rest, you are right, ive no clue about satanism or its various sections of thought, my post was simply aimed at the snobbery thats been rampant.
Which you cant have failed to miss,

Oh I didn't miss it, its just that few of the people here in the LHP go into the debate section of the forum, because we realize the amount of people that put themselves into a position without attempting to rationalize, challenge, or apply it to themselves in the mirror.

It is in my view that debating is done to gain a greater understanding of the Opposition and even yourself, this can hardly be done by assuming you are anything better or worse than that which challenges you.

I may be an Atheist but I am willing to concede that I could be wrong in that world view, infact I want to be shown im wrong if thats the case but that said when every body is throwing jacks on the table to try and trump another jack it does sound hollow.

I completely agree with you here, I am also willing to concede that I could be wrong, but I have yet to find someone capable of possessing such an influence.

Like you said probably hardly anybody knows much about your world view, how much more unreasonable is it to scoff and call my world view better and yours meaningless?

Depends, a majority of Satanists actually may consider themselves "atheists" in terms of their "God" view, but in the long run meaningless only applies to those who think they know something.

 

[Blackdog22]

I think the Bible version of Satan was jealous of God and wanted to be worshiped as him and was thus cast out of Heaven. There are other interpretations of the particular verses that demonstrate his selfishness and desire to be worshiped, but this version is the one I have found to be most popular in my life.

Now considering that if Satan wished to be worshiped then getting people to worship other gods that divert any glory from himself is a rediculous idea. I would also have to ask Christians what they think about the fact that Satanism is among the smallest religions in the world.

 

[McBell]

I think the Bible version of Satan was jealous of God and wanted to be worshiped as him and was thus cast out of Heaven. There are other interpretations of the particular verses that demonstrate his selfishness and desire to be worshiped, but this version is the one I have found to be most popular in my life.

Now considering that if Satan wished to be worshiped then getting people to worship other gods that divert any glory from himself is a rediculous idea. I would also have to ask Christians what they think about the fact that Satanism is among the smallest religions in the world.

I think the Bible version of The Satan was a most loyal servant of God.

 

[Orias]

I think the Bible version of Satan was jealous of God and wanted to be worshiped as him and was thus cast out of Heaven. There are other interpretations of the particular verses that demonstrate his selfishness and desire to be worshiped, but this version is the one I have found to be most popular in my life.

I'm sorry, if your going to contribute fantastical view points then I don't know why your even here.

Now considering that if Satan wished to be worshiped then getting people to worship other gods that divert any glory from himself is a rediculous idea. I would also have to ask Christians what they think about the fact that Satanism is among the smallest religions in the world.

Hmm...how little you actually know about Satanism has now been made clear.

I think the Bible version of The Satan was a most loyal servant of God.

I agree, completely

 

[Blackdog22]

I'm sorry, if your going to contribute fantastical view points then I don't know why your even here.

Um, this is actually a very common held understanding of why Satan was cast out of Heaven. If he was Gods perfect side kick then why does it paint such a bad picture of him? These are the verses I am speaking about that are interpreted by many Christians.

"Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.” Ezekiel 28:17
"you have set your heart as the heart of a god.” Ezekiel 28:6


Again, this isn't my belief as I am an Atheist, but I am sorry if you don't like what the majority of the Christians I have encountered think... I guess...

Hmm...how little you actually know about Satanism has now been made clear.

So, because Satanism is in fact one of the smallest belief systems in the World, equates too, me not knowing anything about Satanism? Wow, your logic is exceptional!

I agree, completely

Any reason why you agree with him? Chapter and verse would be nice.

 

[Orias]

Um, this is actually a very common held understanding of why Satan was cast out of Heaven.

That's exactly what I mean by fantastical viewpoint.

It hardly pertains to the actuality of the philosophy.

If he was Gods perfect side kick then why does it paint such a bad picture of him? These are the verses I am speaking about that are interpreted by many Christians.

It doesn't paint such a bad picture of him, people are just conditioned and interperate it to do so.

It's like taking the life lesson of "black people are bad" from the words of your famous grandfather, this statement is obviously untrue.



Yes, they are verses that are interperated by Christians, and your not a Christian so I'm kind of stumped here. I don't know why you insist on trying to speak for them.

Sure, the verses speak somewhat of the viewpoint that any number of Satanists can hold, but there is nothing in the verses that implies anything about it being "bad" or "incorrect" besides that "subtle" bias most people are conditioned to possess.

As if personal splendor did not play a role in anyone's becoming, this tyranical "Abrahamic God" is probably the only being I know that is truly gratified by the muffled pleas of his kin.

It should have been observed that power is gained by means of a conduit, a star doesn't burn without the elements, a "God" doesn't exist without beings such as ourselves to continually add on and amplify this seemingly gracious form of perception.

So, because Satanism is in fact one of the smallest belief systems in the World, equates too, me not knowing anything about Satanism? Wow, your logic is exceptional!

No, you know nothing about Satanism because you think it's One of the smallest belief systems in the world.

Any reason why you agree with him? Chapter and verse would be nice.

You want me to offer you scripture? :biglaugh:

I guess if you can tell me how many people "Satan" killed without "Gods" permission.

Mestemia is better than me at this sort of thing though.

 

[Blackdog22]

It doesn't paint such a bad picture of him, people are just conditioned and interperate it to do so.

It's like taking the life lesson of "black people are bad" from the words of your famous grandfather, this statement is obviously untrue.

I think this verse comes pretty close.

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
'I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.'” Isaiah 14:12-14

Yes, they are verses that are interperated by Christians, and your not a Christian so I'm kind of stumped here. I don't know why you insist on trying to speak for them.

Because the OP was speaking from the Christians perspective and I was a Christian for 19 years. So, it is possible to know about what Christians generally think without being a Christian...

Sure, the verses speak somewhat of the viewpoint that any number of Satanists can hold, but there is nothing in the verses that implies anything about it being "bad" or "incorrect" besides that "subtle" bias most people are conditioned to possess.

Sure, ill agree with that. People are conditioned to believe Satan is evil, but there are verses to back up their position according to the Bible. I guess this also depends on if you view lucifer, satan, the serpent as all one person. Also, what do you think of Satan tempting Jesus?

No, you know nothing about Satanism because you think it's One of the smallest belief systems in the world.

Can you at least point to a major Satanic church that houses multiple thousands of people? Every article I have read about puts Satanism very, very low on the religious poll.

You want me to offer you scripture? :biglaugh:

I guess if you can tell me how many people "Satan" killed without "Gods" permission.

Mestemia is better than me at this sort of thing though.

I think God is a bigger dick than Satan. I am just coming at this from a Christian perspective since that is what pertains to the OP.

 

[McBell]

I think this verse comes pretty close.

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
'I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.'” Isaiah 14:12-14

Except that has nothing to do with The Satan.
It is talking about the King of Babylon.

Sure, ill agree with that. People are conditioned to believe Satan is evil, but there are verses to back up their position according to the Bible.

Oh, you mean like the ones you posted above that have nothing to do with The Satan, Lucifer, or the serpent..?

I guess this also depends on if you view lucifer, satan, the serpent as all one person.

Lucifer and Satan are not used as names in the Bible.
They are used as titles...
The serpent could have been one of the many people in the Bible to have one or both of those titles, but the Bible never specifies either way.

Also, what do you think of Satan tempting Jesus?

What about it?

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
If we understand what *RELIGION* means; we find that *religion* is nothing but a PATH or WAY and so one who walks the a path is labelled *RELIGIOUS*.
We also find that any form has two ends one which is the gross material end like ICE and the other part which is the * Consciousness* or *spirit* which never changes. The intermediary state of flowing is water even for any form to be able to adapt to changes.
The path of satan is towards the material or gross end and the other side can be labelled the *god end* But do remember that both combined makes the *WHOLE* or rather a form is complete only when both aspects are present.

Love & rgds

 

[nightwolf]

I have talked to people on both the Christian faith, as well as those whom believe in Satan.

The thing that has always struck me as funny (maybe wrong word here) is there is a common ground. In order to believe in absolute evil, you have to believe in an absolute form of good and both do.

The people I have meant that believe in Satan (as in worship) seem to have problems with the status quo. I get the impression that they follow the religion they do just to tick people off.

I think it is also funny that since these people (Satanists) believe in Satan, they are more Christian then I am since I believe I am the source of good that I do as well as the source of any bad I may do.

As far as coming up with evil angels to worship, not really to surprised and see it as possible as new religions seem to pop up all the time.

 

[Rakhel]

The people I have meant that believe in Satan (as in worship) seem to have problems with the status quo. I get the impression that they follow the religion they do just to tick people off.

Not trying to cherry pick quotes(I hate that myself), but this was the only problem I had with your post. This is statement is not exactly correct. It may be true for some teenagers but this does not fit with the majority of worshipers.