Satanic Suicide

[Darkness]

A friend of mine was telling me that Satanists usually commit suicide before they become old or ill. This seems unbelieveable to me as Satanism is a life-affirming religion. He mentioned the Black Metal Vocalist Jon Nödtveidt who commited suicide because he did not want to become old or ill. I doubt he was a true Satanist, but my friend insists that he was. Ergo, I come to you friendly peoples of the Left-Hand Path to answer this conundrum of mine.

 

[Willamena]

Perhaps it is a symbolic suicide?

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

You commit suicide, you lost, end of story from this Satanist.

 

[daemonikus]

this is from an interview done with him in december of '04. a mere two years before he commited suicide. he had been in prison from '97 - '04. the following is a quote from an interview with him. unfortunately i cant post a url here yet but if you google his name you can find the interview fairly easy. the site is called 'metal-rules.com'

Generally, I have seen many people debating whether Dissection belongs to the Black Metal genre or Death Metal genre or some other genre of Metal? What´s your own view about this? Is there any particular musical genre where you fit better than to some other known genre of today?

Jon: I have a simple answer to your difficult question: We belong to “anti-cosmic Metal of death” genre, he!​

He, he... could you explain more accurately what this particular description includes?
Jon: Well, it´s the Metal of death, y´know. It´s all about death; the key to liberation. And it´s the anti-cosmic Metal of death because our music is, y´know, in harmony with the forces that are surrouding this cosmic universe, the destructive and dissolving powers. And it´s Satanic Metal; anti-cosmic Satanic Metal of death. That´s the musical,- lyrical- and philosophical point of the band.​

now without getting into the whole 'what the heck is anti-cosmic/black/death yadda yadda yadda'. i post the quotes to point out that many extreme metal musicians whether satanists or not have more than just a 'we just like the music' attitude. many black metal bands (especially in norway of course) still support church burnings and other acts of violence against religion. the point is that his attitudes on the subject of death are probably not just limited to lyrics but extend into his personal views and therefore it is very possible that his suicide was very intentional and thought out (as exemplified by the statement 'it's all about death; the key to liberation').

to put a different spin on the idea of suicide, why should we deny people the right to end thier own lives? we are not given the choice to enter life, should we not at least have to choice to leave it? satanism is largely about control. the ability to take control of your own situation and your own surroundings and attempt to create your own outcome. how is suicide any different from another situation? yes its finality is intimidating but to resolve (of course under the assumption that he didnt kill himself just because he was 'depressed') to commit suicide would be perhaps one of the strongest statements of personal control over one's own life that i can think of. i have written a blog on my myspace on this subject. there is a link in my profile to it.

 

[Ðanisty]

A friend of mine was telling me that Satanists usually commit suicide before they become old or ill. This seems unbelieveable to me as Satanism is a life-affirming religion. He mentioned the Black Metal Vocalist Jon Nödtveidt who commited suicide because he did not want to become old or ill. I doubt he was a true Satanist, but my friend insists that he was. Ergo, I come to you friendly peoples of the Left-Hand Path to answer this conundrum of mine.

Suicide is not very Satanic. I think it's pretty absurd for your friend to turn one person's decision into some kind of trend that most Satanists follow. If nothing else, look at Anton LaVey. He got old and died...no suicide there.

Perhaps your friend should consider that Jon committed suicide for reasons outside of his religious beliefs. Just because he is a Satanist does not mean that Satanism was the cause of his suicide.

 

[Darkness]

to put a different spin on the idea of suicide, why should we deny people the right to end thier own lives? we are not given the choice to enter life, should we not at least have to choice to leave it? satanism is largely about control. the ability to take control of your own situation and your own surroundings and attempt to create your own outcome. how is suicide any different from another situation? yes its finality is intimidating but to resolve (of course under the assumption that he didnt kill himself just because he was 'depressed') to commit suicide would be perhaps one of the strongest statements of personal control over one's own life that i can think of. i have written a blog on my myspace on this subject. there is a link in my profile to it.

I am not a Satanist, so I will not argue with you. However, being this is the only life we get it seems stupid to throw it away when you have time left to spend. Besides, suicide would be devestating to your loved ones.

Suicide is not very Satanic. I think it's pretty absurd for your friend to turn one person's decision into some kind of trend that most Satanists follow. If nothing else, look at Anton LaVey. He got old and died...no suicide there.

That was my first impression. From briefly reading about the Satanic Bible, I remember LaVey discouraging suicide, unless it is absolutely necessary i.e. you will live in terrible pain for the rest of your life. daemonikus' words have to make me reconsider, though.

 

[Ðanisty]

deomonikus has a point IF the suicide serves a purpose in some way. For instance, I don't think of seppuku as cowardly at all. Suicide simply to die before you get old is not honorable, in my opinion.

 

[daemonikus]

just to clarify. i disagree with depressive suicide. a true depression creates illogical thinking and thus a decision to commit suicide is not made rationally. however, could you not consider the idea relevant to someone who feels they have genuinely lived as long as they would prefer? yes it would be a sad event for a family but death inevitable in the first place. make it an event that people are aware of, organize your own funeral, make your final statements, mend broken relationships if you desire, etc. i'm not suggesting this is right for everyone but why deny someone that option?

 

[Darkness]

deomonikus has a point IF the suicide serves a purpose in some way. For instance, I don't think of seppuku as cowardly at all. Suicide simply to die before you get old is not honorable, in my opinion.

I have no problem with seppuku either. Sometimes suicide may be the right course of action, such as a soldier detonation a critical bomb even though it will kill him.

yes it would be a sad event for a family but death inevitable in the first place. make it an event that people are aware of, organize your own funeral, make your final statements, mend broken relationships if you desire, etc. i'm not suggesting this is right for everyone but why deny someone that option?

I would never deny someone the right to end their own life. I may think them a bas*ard though for doing so. It is not good to kill yourself if you have a loving spouse or child who cares deeply for you. Then you become a selfish coward.

 

[Ðanisty]

I wouldn't deny anyone that right either. I have no problems with euthanasia. The question really though is really about whether or not it's Satanic. You can't just decide whether suicide is Satanic or not...it will depend on the circumstances. I don't think killing yourself just because you're going to die anyway is very Satanic. Also, the problem here is that Darkness' friend has taken one instance and tried to turn it into some kind of policy. Satanists do not usually commit suicide before they become old or ill.

 

[daemonikus]

Satanists do not usually commit suicide before they become old or ill.

true. i haven't heard of the statement that satanists kill themselves before they get old or ill. i would only argue that there may be people out there who might consider it a 'satanic trait' (for lack of a better description) to have the control over your own existence to be able to resolve to end it. i know i myself can see the value in such a way of thinking.

Suicide is not very Satanic. I think it's pretty absurd for your friend to turn one person's decision into some kind of trend that most Satanists follow. If nothing else, look at Anton LaVey. He got old and died...no suicide there.

anton lavey is not the founder of satanism. yes he modernized it and made it 'official' but he was merely the satanic parallel to what gerald gardner did for wicca/paganism. just because lavey says 'true satanists dont [fill in blank]' doesnt make it true. its just like any other religion or way of thought. groups will have similarities but there will always be differences as well.

 

[Ðanisty]

anton lavey is not the founder of satanism. yes he modernized it and made it 'official' but he was merely the satanic parallel to what gerald gardner did for wicca/paganism. just because lavey says 'true satanists dont [fill in blank]' doesnt make it true. its just like any other religion or way of thought. groups will have similarities but there will always be differences as well.

I absolutely agree with you! I was merely pointing to him as a counter-reference to the musician.

 

[Darkness]

I want to thank both of you. You guys (guy and girl) are the best.

 

[Quiddity]

Don't know much about it, but I remember reading a book that talked about fetuses being taken from hospitals and being sacrificed by Satanists. The doctor himself was in on it all and not once did it ever talk about a Satanist actually committing suicide, but only sacrificing. Don't know how much truth there is in that.

 

[Ðanisty]

Don't know much about it, but I remember reading a book that talked about fetuses being taken from hospitals and being sacrificed by Satanists. The doctor himself was in on it all and not once did it ever talk about a Satanist actually committing suicide, but only sacrificing. Don't know how much truth there is in that.

I suspect there's not much truth an any of what you posted Victor. A Satanist wouldn't do that because Satanists believe that children are precious (for lack of a better word). Satanists believe that children are truly innocent because they have not yet been exposed to or indoctrinated into any belief. If someone did this and claimed to be a Satanist, it was merely a claim of someone who's mentally unstable. Afterall, if a self-proclaimed Christian did the exact same thing, wouldn't it be obvious that they really weren't Christian at all?

 

[Darkness]

Satanists are Atheists (there could be some that believe in a literal Satan) so who would they sacrifice the fetus to? The Nineth Satanic Rule of the Earth is actually "Do not harm little children."

 

[NomyRomy]

anyone who defiles thier temple, which is their self in this life, is odd or ill to begin with....If you are not ill or odd already, you have nothing to fear....

 

[Ðanisty]

anyone who defiles thier temple, which is their self in this life, is odd or ill to begin with....If you are not ill or odd already, you have nothing to fear....

What? I'm not even sure I understand what you're trying to say? Is this a Christian belief? If so, it doesn't belong in the Satanism DIR forum.

 

[Quiddity]

I suspect there's not much truth an any of what you posted Victor. A Satanist wouldn't do that because Satanists believe that children are precious (for lack of a better word). Satanists believe that children are truly innocent because they have not yet been exposed to or indoctrinated into any belief. If someone did this and claimed to be a Satanist, it was merely a claim of someone who's mentally unstable. Afterall, if a self-proclaimed Christian did the exact same thing, wouldn't it be obvious that they really weren't Christian at all?

Well, any attempt to say what a Christian should or shouldn't do/believe is not taken very well by some people. But yes, it is obvious. But one can only say that if they have some sort of basic understanding of it. As you know, people don't think of cute bunnies and flowers when they think "Satanism". It takes some time for some people to get past the stigmas.

I was rather surprised to see that Satanist view fetuses (which you identified as "children") is such manner.

 

[Quiddity]

Satanists are Atheists (there could be some that believe in a literal Satan) so who would they sacrifice the fetus to? The Nineth Satanic Rule of the Earth is actually "Do not harm little children."

Could be?
I've only met one theistic Satanist and "could be" seems almost a bit hesitant toward them. But I wont get caught up in any theist vs. non-theist skirmish.