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Say goodbye to your dear ones "if":

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Yes, for sure and that is good news. But again, it will take 1-2 years minimum before any benefits result. In the short term I think Germany had better revisit its misjudged commitment to phase out nuclear power and put some of its mothballed reactors back into service. Far better that than start burning more coal.

Given Russia and Ukraine, turning nuclear power plants back on is very risky because it relies on Russia not attacking them. I'm not sure I'd take that bet.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Russia obviously see it as a threat if Ukraine joins the EU and NATO and want to prevent it, so they decided to invade them instead.

That was an excuse but to me the real reason is putin's desire to rebuild the soviet empire.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I think it is a bit more complicated than that.

Ukraine is a fairly young country and suffers from a split in their populations interest, some prefer Russia and some EU. The west are not enemies of Ukraine, I don't know where you got that from? I don't even think Ukraine were considered an enemy of Russia before all this, sure their were some tensions etc. but that is not the same as referring to them as enemies.

The reason Ukraine can't be part or haven't become part of EU is because they have a lot of issues living up to the rules set by EU, which are in regards to corruption, economics, humanitarian rules etc. that all EU countries have to live up to. Now certain countries joined under the promise of improving these things, which turned out to not really be a good way of doing it. That is why it is a long process to become a member of the EU.

Russia obviously see it as a threat if Ukraine joins the EU and NATO and want to prevent it, so they decided to invade them instead.
Result Russia and Ukrain very close, Russia and EU fighting take Ukrain land. everyone said it's mine.
For my opinion Russia now win in all levels, in Econemy ,oil and gaz high prices and war winning land of Ukrain,which could feed 600 million person.
 
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Nimos

Well-Known Member
That was an excuse but to me the real reason is putin's desire to rebuild the soviet empire.
At this point I have to admit that I have no clue what he is trying to do. You might be right, but in that case it would be impossible if Ukraine joined NATO and the EU, without dragging them into a war.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Result Russia and Ukrain very close, Russia and EU fighting take Ukrain land. everyone said it's mine.
For my opinion Russia now win in all levels, in Econemy ,oil and gaz high prices and war winning land of Ukrain,which could feed 600 million person.
What do you mean, no one said that Ukraine were theirs? Ukraine have talked about wanting to join with the EU and if they did they would still be a sovereign country, Russia didn't like that, so they decided to invade them. You don't see EU and NATO invading them do you?
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
What do you mean, no one said that Ukraine were theirs? Ukraine have talked about wanting to join with the EU and if they did they would still be a sovereign country, Russia didn't like that, so they decided to invade them. You don't see EU and NATO invading them do you?
Maybe you won't take my opinion seriously.
West is get closer to Ukrain to invading Russia.
West destories Soviet Union from intern , then appears Russia almost same to Soviet Union, but more powerful.
I believe NATO consider Russia as main target.NATO did not plant flowers in border of Russia ,they plant missiles .
You will say missiles for defend, so they don't trust Russia, how suppose Russia trust them ?
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Maybe you won't take my opinion seriously.
West is get closer to Ukrain to invading Russia.
West destories Soviet Union from intern , then appears Russia almost same to Soviet Union, but more powerful.
I believe NATO consider Russia as main target.NATO did not plant flowers in border of Russia ,they plant missiles .
You will say missiles for defend, so they don't trust Russia, how suppose Russia trust them ?
The Soviet union destroyed itself due to corruption and incompetence. You have any clue how many people suffered at the hands of these Russian leaders? It was absolutely insane.

NATO considers Russia its biggest threat, its not a target for NATO. But obviously NATO is worried, because Russia have a lot of nuclear weapons and they don't exactly encourage democracy and other values that we do.

How Russia is suppose to trust NATO? is exactly the same way that Europe is going to trust Russia. There live 144 million people in Russia and they have approx. 6500 Nuclear missiles. There live 447 million people in the countries part of the EU and the Americans have approx. 150 missiles in EU, the rest are in the US. France and UK have some as well, around 500. So why don't you ask how Europe or the countries in the middle east are suppose to trust Russia?
 
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Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
The Soviet union destroyed itself due to corruption and incompetence. You have any clue how many people suffered at the hands of these Russian leaders? It was absolutely insane.

NATO considers Russia its biggest threat, its not a target for NATO. But obviously NATO is worried, because Russia have a lot of nuclear weapons and they don't exactly encourage democracy and other values that we do.

How Russia is suppose to trust NATO? is exactly the same way that Europe is going to trust Russia. There live 144 million people in Russia and they have approx. 6500 Nuclear missiles. There live 447 million people in the countries part of the EU and the Americans have approx. 150 missiles in EU, the rest are in the US. France and UK have some as well, around 500. So why don't you ask how Europe or the countries in middle east are suppose to trust Russia?
Acts talks, Russia did not involved in most of people of world except Syria, West involved in many wars,like in Iraq and Veitnam and Syria,and Libya . (mostly allie to Russia)

Same question asked by fans of Russia, how suppose Russia trust West since the West fought indirectly in Afghanistan against Soviet army . How suppose Russia trust West after see lot of Wars by name of democraty to change regimes allie to Russia ?
How suppose Russia trust in West,most of movies represent them as criminals gangs ?
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Acts talks, Russia did not involved in most of people of world except Syria, West involved in many wars,like in Iraq and Veitnam and Syria,and Libya . (mostly allie to Russia)

Same question asked by fans of Russia, how suppose Russia trust West since the West fought indirectly in Afghanistan against Soviet army . How suppose Russia trust West after see lot of Wars by name of democraty to change regimes allie to Russia ?
How suppose Russia trust in West,most of movies represent them as criminals gangs ?
Russia have "fought" against the US as well in every single war after WW2, this goes both ways and is because they have different political ideas.

Try to look at a list of the wars and conflicts that Russia have been part of:

List of wars involving Russia - Wikipedia

And don't get me wrong that I fully understand why a lot of middle eastern countries are angry or dislike the US, because they have done a lot of things there. But that doesn't excuse Russia for what they have done. So its a mutual conflict, where both sides has to trust each other. There is no single solution here.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Russia have "fought" against the US as well in every single war after WW2, this goes both ways and is because they have different political ideas.

Try to look at a list of the wars and conflicts that Russia have been part of:

List of wars involving Russia - Wikipedia

And don't get me wrong that I fully understand why a lot of middle eastern countries are angry or dislike the US, because they have done a lot of things there. But that doesn't excuse Russia for what they have done. So its a mutual conflict, where both sides has to trust each other. There is no single solution here.

I check list I did not find any war by Russia against USA , mean involved by Russia, can you please enlight me ?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
robably little or nothing. It's too late to do what should have probably been done differently. Different foreign policy could have potentially averted the situation, but 1) there would have been no guarantee even then considering Putin's instability, and 2) the U.S. doesn't have a track record of giving up desire for regional influence even when pursuing such could lead to major diplomatic or military crises.

That assumes a rational motive on Putin's part not an emotional one. I'm unconvinced and think it more likely Putin is operating on the emotional desire to reconstruct the Soviet empire.

We don't know what kind of deal we might have offered Putin but I'd sure like to know so I can judge for myself whether he was offered something substantial that also preserved Ukraine's sovereignty.

Many of them have long been ruled by puppets of the U.S. Saudi Arabia is a prime example.
bin Laden and 9/11 as the outcome of Saudi Arabia being a US puppet?

I'm guilty of this as well but looking at you and into a mirror, I'll state that most of the time it's better to avoid extreme language unless it is really justified. I would agree with "influenced by" or something else more moderate and more accurate.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Result Russia and Ukrain very close, Russia and EU fighting take Ukrain land. everyone said it's mine.
For my opinion Russia now win in all levels, in Econemy ,oil and gaz high prices and war winning land of Ukrain,which could feed 600 million person.

Russia and Ukraine are not very close. They are at war with Ukraine fighting furiously to preserve its independence. And if Russia does occupy it, there will be a guerilla war to recover its freedom.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
I check list I did not find any war by Russia against USA , mean involved by Russia, can you please enlight me ?
I mean when the US is in war, those they fight against gets support from Russia and other countries that don't like the US, just like we are seeing the west is doing when we support Ukraine and give them weapon, this is very common in wars. Im not talking about a war between Russian soldiers and US soldiers.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
At this point I have to admit that I have no clue what he is trying to do. You might be right, but in that case it would be impossible if Ukraine joined NATO and the EU, without dragging them into a war.

It's looking more likely that Sweden and Finland might join NATO thanks to Putin. He's managed to cause many status quo assumptions to be tossed into the trash can and where things wind up is a mystery.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Given Russia and Ukraine, turning nuclear power plants back on is very risky because it relies on Russia not attacking them. I'm not sure I'd take that bet.
Reactors should be built underground in Europe. But that is a long term plan admittedly.

In my opinion.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I mean when the US is in war, those they fight against gets support from Russia and other countries that don't like the US, just like we are seeing the west is doing when we support Ukraine and give them weapon, this is very common in wars. Im not talking about a war between Russian soldiers and US soldiers.
I don't remember any war done by USA. The Russia support them during the war by weapons.
Like NATO doing now with Ukraine.

Can you provide one?
 

Sedim Haba

Outa here... bye-bye!
I certainly hope not. While the idea may sound good in theory to stop Putin, I would expect such a war to not only lead to more deaths among Ukrainians but also among many other countries' populations.

The advanced military technology and nuclear weapons the world currently possesses would most likely mean that nobody would win in a third world war. Such an event could spell the end of our modern civilization, so I hope things never come to that.
The only thing left will be insects and lichen, but life evolved here from much less.
The issue is if this world has time to reach this level once again, in it's overall lifespan?
 
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