"SC Police Hastily Scratch “Lord” and “Matthew 5:9” Off Monument...."

[Revoltingest]

To be fair they're not known to grace the field of battle.

But some day, one of us might fall when fleeing.

 

[Enoch07]

But Arlington allows grave markers for all faiths, thus doesn't violate the first amendment.

No different than any other govt facility.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But Arlington allows grave markers for all faiths, thus doesn't violate the first amendment.

A very well made point. Once again the problem is not the Christian message. The problem is that it is the only message. I do believe that I asked if they would accept a state to Baphomet. Oddly enough there was no answer from those in favor of this violation of the establishment clause.

 

[Father Heathen]

No different than any other govt facility.

Yeah, a court house displaying religious propaganda is no different than a dead man's stone in a cemetery.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Incorrect, I present to you Arlington National Cemetery - Home.

Now go sic that highly litigious butt hurt atheist group on Arlington. See how well they fair.

The headstones in Arlington don't imply government endorsement of any religion.

Do you understand the difference between a headstone that's meant to commemorate an individual soldier and a monument for an entire police force?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I am quite glad to hear it. Not that I didn't already expect this. I don't believe even the most adamant of believers when they say that they prescribe to no other moral code than that laid forth by God. God didn't cover all the bases in The Bible, nor does He seem to be willing to address further concerns or things that come up in modern society. So obviously we have to be on our toes, and utilize our own moral discernment, regardless the "basis" upon which we claim to rest our principles.

Some things work fairly well, yes. I don't deny this. But by no means would I ever use the word "best" to describe it. For one, the 10 commandments contain an awful lot of self-aggrandizing on the part of God. How does making sure you love God first and foremost affect one's behavior toward his fellow man? If anything, it puts a huge obstacle in the way of truly proving to anyone that you love them to the greatest degree that you are able, because you will obviously always have to inform them that you "love God more." Whereas I, as a non-believer, can honestly inform my family that I love them more than anything else in this universe or any other, the believer is automatically restricted in their ability to make such a statement. And this "love of God" will ONLY be understood by other believers in your same religion. So if, for an example, you were to tell a nonbeliever - one of your own children who ends up being "atheist" let's say - that you love them second only to God, you're basically telling that person that you love something they can't even be sure exists (and probably don't think YOU can be sure of yourself) more than you love them. That's like a slap in the face. It would be like you and I being best friends, except that I profess that "Spongebob Squarepants" is my first best friend, but you're a close second!

Killing a plant is of different weight than killing a human FROM THE HUMAN PERSPECTIVE, and not necessarily any other. This is so easy to express/demonstrate/prove that it is ridiculous. Let's think about a milk-weed, upon which a monarch butterfly has just laid its only egg. Just after the egg-laying event, a human being comes by, chops down the plant and as this human goes to throw it into a wood-chipper, the person trips and themselves head headlong into the wood-chipper, right behind the milk-weed in their hand. The human and the butterfly's potential offspring both die. Assuming the butterfly could understand all that had transpired, which of the 3 dead beings would the butterfly mourn the most? And in what ranked order of importance is each death to the butterfly? I would venture to guess that it would go something like this, easily:

1. Mourn the loss of its egg/pupa
2. Mourn the loss of the milk-weed
3. Mourn the death of the human, if it wasn't instead, intent on cursing the human's name repeatedly

Or, we can go a completely different route to show how perspective effects this kinds of situations to a MASSIVE degree. Let's say we find the cure for cancer in a variation of a plant that only grows in one particular region/area/climate. A doomsday cult, who believes that the world is overpopulated, begins a dastardly campaign to destroy all samples of this plant in the region within which it grows, and raid the labs where it has been harvested to destroy those samples also. It somehow comes down to a movie-moment where one of the cult members is running away from an agent of the law with the very last plant of this variety in their hand toward a pit of lava in an active volcano. The cult member is wearing a full suit of body armor and the only vulnerable spot that is visible to the agent if where the helmet meets the back of the suit. So - to stop the cult member, the agent has to fire a bullet into the spine or back of the head of the cult member, most likely killing them. This is the last chance to save the cure for cancer. Should the agent take the shot? Wouldn't that be prizing the life of a plant over the life of a human being? Oh no! How could this be?! We can't possibly do that, can we??!? What has this world come to?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!??!!1

Wow, loaded statement indeed. Instead of "Adultery and murder can be okay sometimes" you went with "For one, the 10 commandments contain an awful lot of self-aggrandizing on the part of God." (!)

Is it self-aggrandizing:

* when a parent expects obedience from a child?
* when a lover expects adoration from a beloved?
* when a teacher expects good comments from students they strive to help?

That's atheist 101 isn't it, "God doesn't deserve MY adoration for making life, sex, delicious food, blue skies, giving me a strong mind and heart..."

Then you say you are arguing with me on the basis of LOGIC?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Refusing to make unsubstantiated presumptions about the universe has nothing to do with possessing "special knowledge".


The best form of morality is based on both reason and compassion. Subjective in the sense that it grows and evolves alongside human knowledge and understanding, and objective in the sense that's it's measured by real world cause and effect. Practical, purposeful, and proportionate rather than irrational and arbitrary.

From atheism there is no ultimate meaning and value in life; people too often misunderstand this to be the claim that atheists live immoral and dull lives. No matter how we behave or how much we enjoy life, our lives are objectively worthless and purposeless if God does not exist!

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Wow, loaded statement indeed. Instead of "Adultery and murder can be okay sometimes" you went with "For one, the 10 commandments contain an awful lot of self-aggrandizing on the part of God." (!)

Is it self-aggrandizing:

* when a parent expects obedience from a child?
* when a lover expects adoration from a beloved?
* when a teacher expects good comments from students they strive to help?

That's atheist 101 isn't it, "God doesn't deserve MY adoration for making life, sex, delicious food, blue skies, giving me a strong mind and heart..."

Then you say you are arguing with me on the basis of LOGIC?

Are you seriously going here under the heading "LOGIC?" Seriously???

NO PARENT says "You may have no other parents but me." Do they? DO THEY? Nope. Instead there are two parents right off the bat, who, if either of which were to tell their child that they MUST love them more than the other parent, we're consider off their rocker. We also offer "grand-parents" we offer, in many instances, "step-parents" - in fact, there are many, many people who take on the role of "parent" for many, many children who are not the actual parent of that child.

How about "make no image of me, your parent." Do any parents say that total BULL-CRAP to their children? If they do, do we respect them? Do we perhaps wonder why they wouldn't want that? Maybe they are a little too vain, but don't actually like their appearance? That's the first thing I would think.

How about, "if you respect me, don't do anything I don't want you to do one day a week?" How about that one? Does that seem reasonable or loving for a parent to demand of their child? "Son, as long as you don't work on Sundays, you can still be my son." The stupidity in something like that is just disgustingly overdone.

And no... a parent who is deluded enough to think themselves "so fantastic" that they can just throw around rules WITHOUT REASONABLE JUSTIFICATION does not deserve "adoration." At least not in my opinion. But you know what is totally sad? That so many kids do actually STILL adore parents who do dumb things like God writes up in His first few commandments, because those parents are all they have. And here you are, WITH A CHOICE, and you STILL choose Him. Unbelievable.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Wow, loaded statement indeed.

I also wanted to point out that you completely dodged my moral-perspective (butterfly) and moral-dilemma (cancer-curing plant) scenarios which easily and handily display that human life is not necessarily to be valued above all. It is all a matter of perspective, and I oppose anyone who states that there is some "universal" or "objective" greater value to humans than other life-forms. Sure - I (or you, or any HUMAN) may prize a fellow human's life above a plant. But it is complete stupidity/delusion/naivete that allows someone to claim that this is due to some intrinsic value of the human condition that holds throughout the universe. NOWHERE do you see this reverence for humanity played out. Not even on our own planet. Not even all the time in human-to-human interactions.

 

[Enoch07]

Yeah, a court house displaying religious propaganda is no different than a dead man's stone in a cemetery.

This thread isn't about a courthouse.

It's about a stone outside a police station to commemorate fallen cops. It's no different than Arlington.

 

[Enoch07]

The headstones in Arlington don't imply government endorsement of any religion.

Many have prayers and crossed on them.
Symbols & Emblems of Arlington Cemetery Headstones

Do you understand the difference between a headstone that's meant to commemorate an individual soldier and a monument for an entire police force?

You don't apparently.