Science and Sikhi

[Satnaam]

Will try to post some excerpts from our scripture, Guru Granth Sahib and get your views on them.

 

[Satnaam]

Excerpt from a book called 'Sikh Religion & Science' by GS Sidhu.

Life in plants

Life in plants was discovered by an Indian scientist Sir Jagdish Chander Bose (1858-1937) for which he was awarded the Noble Prize. However, the Sikh Gurus had stated this in the Guru Granth Sahib nearly 400 years earlier. The Sikh scripture says “All grains have life in them” (GGS p. 472).
The fact that not only grains but also plants have life in them is stated as follows;
“The gardener’s wife plucks the flower petals to offer them to a stone statue. Little does she know that the flower petals she plucks have life in them and the stone idol has no life in it”
(GGS p. 479).
(the last line is a criticism of 'Hindus' at that time worshipping idols, thinking idols had life in them while having no regard for 'actual' living beings - plants for example)

 

[Sapiens]

Excerpt from a book called 'Sikh Religion & Science' by GS Sidhu.

Life in plants

Life in plants was discovered by an Indian scientist Sir Jagdish Chander Bose (1858-1937) for which he was awarded the Noble Prize. However, the Sikh Gurus had stated this in the Guru Granth Sahib nearly 400 years earlier. The Sikh scripture says “All grains have life in them” (GGS p. 472).
The fact that not only grains but also plants have life in them is stated as follows;
“The gardener’s wife plucks the flower petals to offer them to a stone statue. Little does she know that the flower petals she plucks have life in them and the stone idol has no life in it”
(GGS p. 479).
(the last line is a criticism of 'Hindus' at that time worshipping idols, thinking idols had life in them while having no regard for 'actual' living beings - plants for example)

I find no evidence of his winning a Nobel prize though there is significant discussion that he should have. I do not think that the "discovery" of life in plants is something that can be credited to any known individual, to do so you'd have to find the first farmer in history and that goes back about 12,000 years.

BTW: your link does not supply information about him, but rather about Bose stereo speakers.

 

[Satnaam]

I did not add the link. Don't know how it got there.

And the excerpt is from a book so its the authors mistake in claiming that Jagdish Chander won the nobel prize. But fact remains that he made some significant discoveries related to plant life.

Bose subsequently made a number of pioneering discoveries in plant physiology. He used his own invention, the crescograph, to measure plant response to various stimuli, and thereby scientifically proved parallelism between animal and plant tissues. Although Bose filed for a patent for one of his inventions due to peer pressure, his reluctance to any form of patenting was well known. To facilitate his research, he constructed automatic recorders capable of registering extremely slight movements; these instruments produced some striking results, such as Bose's demonstration of an apparent power of feeling in plants, exemplified by the quivering of injured plants.

I just made this thread to post about lines from the Guru Granth Sahib which contain some scientific information not generally known around that time. Not to convert anyone or to show our greatness, simply to have other opinions so that I can have a balanced opinion myself. I won't force my views down other peoples throat nor is our religion hell bent on proving its 'veracity' based on scientific truths (often made up) and 'miracles' of their religion.

 

[Satnaam]

Excerpt from the same book:

2. Law of conservation of mass & energy

Science recognises three laws of conservation, which were established by Antoine Lavoisier (1743-94). They are (a) Law of conservation of mass (b) Law of conservation of energy and (c) law of conservation of matter.

These laws state that matter, energy or mass can never be created or destroyed by any known physical or chemical means; they only change their form.

This fact is mentioned in the Sikh scriptures at many places. Guru Nanak says, “On all the worlds created by Him there are storehouses of His bounties which have been replenished once for all”

At another place the scripture tells us more clearly “Nothing is produced and nothing is lost. I say it by God’s grace.”
(AGGS p. 695)

The principle is further applied to the death of living organisms and matter. The Guru says, “Nothing is born and
nothing dies. Birth and death are only the Lord’s game.” (AGGS p. 281)

 

[Sapiens]

Excerpt from the same book:

2. Law of conservation of mass & energy

Science recognises three laws of conservation, which were established by Antoine Lavoisier (1743-94). They are (a) Law of conservation of mass (b) Law of conservation of energy and (c) law of conservation of matter.

These laws state that matter, energy or mass can never be created or destroyed by any known physical or chemical means; they only change their form.

This fact is mentioned in the Sikh scriptures at many places. Guru Nanak says, “On all the worlds created by Him there are storehouses of His bounties which have been replenished once for all”

At another place the scripture tells us more clearly “Nothing is produced and nothing is lost. I say it by God’s grace.”
(AGGS p. 695)

The principle is further applied to the death of living organisms and matter. The Guru says, “Nothing is born and
nothing dies. Birth and death are only the Lord’s game.” (AGGS p. 281)

You're reaching rather far and I fear seeing things that are not there. Perhaps is loses in translation but I hear, no even, the echos of thermodynamics in: “On all the worlds created by Him there are storehouses of His bounties which have been replenished once for all.”

 

[Satnaam]

Again its not me but excerpts from a book. You don't see conservation in 'nothing is produced nothing is lost' 'none is born, none dies'? Maybe you are not trying at all.

This is another transation of the quote (Guru Granth Sahib, p 7)
ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁ ਏਕਾ ਵਾਰ ॥
Whatever was put into them was put there once and for all.

Meaning whatever was put in the worlds (= universe), i.e. energy/mass, was put there once and for all.

One should remember that most scientific terms did not exist around the 15th century thus other existing words were used to convey a scientific message.

 

[David M]

Science recognises three laws of conservation, which were established by Antoine Lavoisier (1743-94). They are (a) Law of conservation of mass (b) Law of conservation of energy and (c) law of conservation of matter.

Have to correct you here but science does not recognise Lavoisier's law of conservation of matter in full because it is only correct if one ignores special relativity, quantum mechanics, radioactivity and nuclear reactions.

Matter and Energy can be created and destroyed at a quantum level.

 

[Satnaam]

it is only correct if one ignores special relativity, quantum mechanics, radioactivity and nuclear reactions.

Wikipedia says the law is valid even for radioactive decay/nuclear reactions:

The law implies (requires) that during any chemical reaction, nuclear reaction, or radioactive decay in an isolated system, the total mass of the reactants or starting materials must be equal to the mass of the products.

And even for special relativity:

In special relativity, mass is not converted to energy, since mass and energy cannot be destroyed, and energy in all of its forms always retains its equivalent amount of mass throughout any transformation to a different type of energy within a system (or translocation into or out of a system). Certain types of matter (a different concept) may be created or destroyed, but in all of these processes, the energy and mass associated with such matter remains unchanged in quantity (although type of energy associated with the matter may change form).

 

[Sapiens]

Again its not me but excerpts from a book. You don't see conservation in 'nothing is produced nothing is lost' 'none is born, none dies'? Maybe you are not trying at all.

This is another transation of the quote (Guru Granth Sahib, p 7)
ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁ ਏਕਾ ਵਾਰ ॥
Whatever was put into them was put there once and for all.

Meaning whatever was put in the worlds (= universe), i.e. energy/mass, was put there once and for all.

One should remember that most scientific terms did not exist around the 15th century thus other existing words were used to convey a scientific message.

You're reaching. The very lack of terms evidences a lack of concepts.

 

[Satnaam]

That is a flawed reasoning because the religious scripture has a main goal of leading one towards realisation and is about God not science. The scientific things we find there are not intented as science lessons but the way they are mentioned casually and not contrary to science just proves that the Gurus were knowledgable at least if not of divine origin (i.e. 'holy').

For example the Sikh Guru is explaining that God created the universe with worlds upon worlds and whatever he put there (in form of energy/mass), He put it once for all. And today we know that this is true because of Lavoisiers laws. It was all in poetic form, the Guru does not need to put it in some Scientific Laws with specific wordings because he used it in the flow of his text simply as an example to sing about Gods greatness (imp part of Sikhi) not to prove a scientific point. But while doing so, he never fails the laws of science by claiming false things, his statements are corroborated by science. If not then prove by posting statements from Guru Granth Sahib (Sikh holy scripture)

 

[Treks]

Science is science. Spirituality is spirituality. Why do they need to cross over? Do you feel you can prove something by relating Gurbani's spiritual message to science?

Regarding the post about plants and life, and reading the whole shabad, I'm interested in your views on a line from later in that shabad:

"Brahma is in the leaves, Vishnu is in the branches, and Shiva is in the flowers."​