Science and Spirituality

[Madsaac]

Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognise our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.
The late Carl Sagan, American astrophysicist

A person doesn't need god or the supernatural to understand the world or to help makes decisions. We have the inner spirituality of nature, experience and science to do that.

 

[JustGeorge]

Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.

I fully agree!

When we recognise our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual.

Well, for some. I think this can bring up a broad range of emotions, from positive to negative, or even neutral.

So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.

Agreed.

The late Carl Sagan, American astrophysicist

A person doesn't need god or the supernatural to understand the world or to help makes decisions.

Well, here's where individuality comes in. Some don't need this. Some may actually do poorly with it. And others absolutely need it.

And when I say 'God' here, I mean so in a diverse sense. I don't want to exclude the God of Abraham if that's what works for a person, but I don't want to narrow 'God' down to that very specific belief, for the sake of this post.

We have the inner spirituality of nature, knowledge, experience and science to do that.

What works for one may not work for another.

 

[Madsaac]

Well, here's where individuality comes in. Some don't need this. Some may actually do poorly with it. And others absolutely need it.

And when I say 'God' here, I mean so in a diverse sense. I don't want to exclude the God of Abraham if that's what works for a person, but I don't want to narrow 'God' down to that very specific belief, for the sake of this post.

Yes of course, whatever works for an individual is good.

However, IMO, if more people embraced the idea of the natural and science, and let go of the 'narrow' views of religion, we would not have the divisions that beliefs in god can bring.

 

[JustGeorge]

Yes of course, whatever works for an individual is good.

However, IMO, if more people embraced the idea of the natural and science, and let go of the 'narrow' views of religion, we would not have the divisions that beliefs in god can bring.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'narrow' views of religion. And I don't see why belief in God/s would be divisive any more than disbelief would(or, what a person likes to eat, listen to, etc, or any other personal outlook or preference).

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

With these kinds of threads, it sounds like it all boils down to: "If only we could get along better", or "If only people would stop having undesirable emotions".

 

[Jimmy]

Science explains the natural world. Spirituality explains the supernatural. They are definitely seperate. The only thing they have in common is that they are both apart of this life, but then again I guess all things in life could be considered natural or supernatural so you may have a point.

 

[Madsaac]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'narrow' views of religion. And I don't see why belief in God/s would be divisive any more than disbelief would(or, what a person likes to eat, listen to, etc, or any other personal outlook or preference).

Different religions/beliefs equals different doctrines and dogmas. (Dogmatism). So beliefs in God/s can be divisive more then no belief.

Nature and science are what they are.

 

[sayak83]

Different religions/beliefs equals different doctrines and dogmas. (Dogmatism). So beliefs in God/s can be divisive more then no belief.

Nature and science are what they are.

List of secular/non-religious divisive ideologies that have caused lots of violence around the world:-
Racism, Fascism, Nationalism, Communism, Imperialism etc.

 

[1213]

Science is not only compatible with spirituality; ...

What do you think spirituality means?

 

[marriedmanoffaith]

Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognise our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.
The late Carl Sagan, American astrophysicist

A person doesn't need god or the supernatural to understand the world or to help makes decisions. We have the inner spirituality of nature, experience and science to do that.

Some may see science and spirituality as opposing forces. I firmly believe they are complementary aspects of our quest for understanding and meaning. The sense of awe and wonder that arises from contemplating the vast expanse of creation, the intricate dance of subatomic particles, or the majestic beauty of a sunset is a spiritual experience. It is an acknowledgment of the transcendent, a recognition that we are part of something greater than ourselves.

History has shown us that the greatest minds have often walked the path of both faith and reason. From the ancient Greeks to modern-day scientists, the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom has been driven by a desire to understand the mysteries of the universe and our place within it. The likes of Carl Sagan, with his poetic descriptions of the cosmos, remind us that science can be a powerful catalyst for spiritual reflection.

And yet, we must also acknowledge the limitations of both science and faith. While science can illuminate the workings of the physical world, it cannot fully capture the depths of human emotion, the richness of our inner lives, or the mysteries of the human heart. Faith, on the other hand, can provide a sense of purpose, belonging, and meaning, but it must be tempered by reason and critical inquiry, lest it become dogmatic and oppressive.

 

[Madsaac]

What do you think spirituality means?

When I have experiences that emerge from interactions with science and the natural world that include feelings of connection, meaning and wonder.

For example, knowing that the Earth was created through thousands of chance occurrences, makes me feel in awe of the place I live in.

Or the evolution of the human being is just amazing. What I feel or can do because of evolution?

Or the relationship I have with my family and friends has occurred because of millions of years of evolution

These types of things are spiritual.

And personally speaking, I don't think there is a need for an external creative force or a religion to feel spiritual.

 

[Madsaac]

List of secular/non-religious divisive ideologies that have caused lots of violence around the world:-
Racism, Fascism, Nationalism, Communism, Imperialism etc.

Yeah you're right however there some social issues that religion causes division, for example a patriarchal society.

 

[RestlessSoul]

When I have experiences that emerge from interactions with science and the natural world that include feelings of connection, meaning and wonder.

For example, knowing that the Earth was created through thousands of chance occurrences, makes me feel in awe of the place I live in.

Or the evolution of the human being is just amazing. What I feel or can do because of evolution?

Or the relationship I have with my family and friends has occurred because of millions of years of evolution

These types of things are spiritual.

And personally speaking, I don't think there is a need for an external creative force or a religion to feel spiritual.

For you there isn’t, and that’s fine. Problems arise when we declare our own vision of the world, and our own version of spirituality, to be superior to all others.

 

[Augustus]

However, IMO, if more people embraced the idea of the natural and science, and let go of the 'narrow' views of religion, we would not have the divisions that beliefs in god can bring.

The arguments that religions are divisive and that we would be more united without them seem to start from the wrong assumption.

The “default” state is for humans to be divided into countless small groups. It’s not like chimps are united without religion.

Things like religion evolved, at least to a some extent, as a means of uniting us into larger groups of fictive kinship so we could better cooperate and be more successful in competition with other groups.

We are a tribal species who see the world in terms of in and out groups.

Everything that unites us to some people, divides us from others and our sense of identity is tied as much to who we are not as it is to who we are.

There are limitations to how big we can expand our in group to. Absent some kind of external threat, we cannot be united simply by our common humanity.

Religions are perhaps the most unifying force in human history. I’d say the only other rival is the nation state.

Obviously both of these can also divide, but our species evolved in an environment of competition as well as cooperation so that’s what we are stuck with.

What do you see as a most less divisive force that can bind large groups of humans over long periods of time?

 

[sayak83]

Yeah you're right however there some social issues that religion causes division, for example a patriarchal society.

I am not entirely sure of what you said here. I agree that anything that differentiates people can be a source of division and violence. But humans are diverse people by nature. We cannot be made uniform (forcibly making everyone conform to a set standard is another type of extremism). The thing that must change is prejudice against people who are different than "me". But such a change in human psychology is going to take a looooong time.

 

[Madsaac]

For you there isn’t, and that’s fine. Problems arise when we declare our own vision of the world, and our own version of spirituality, to be superior to all others.

Yes you are right, problems can arise when we declare our beliefs superior to others. How you do it, can be problematic. And some things may need to be said, I'm not sure about you but a patriarchal society is not one I want to live in and certain religions do harbour these beliefs. In nature, man and woman are just as important as one another.

And, I only said that I don't feel a need for an external creative force or a religion to feel spiritual.

Anyway the point of the thread is spirituality and science.

 

[Madsaac]

The arguments that religions are divisive and that we would be more united without them seem to start from the wrong assumption.

The “default” state is for humans to be divided into countless small groups. It’s not like chimps are united without religion.

Things like religion evolved, at least to a some extent, as a means of uniting us into larger groups of fictive kinship so we could better cooperate and be more successful in competition with other groups.

We are a tribal species who see the world in terms of in and out groups.

Everything that unites us to some people, divides us from others and our sense of identity is tied as much to who we are not as it is to who we are.

There are limitations to how big we can expand our in group to. Absent some kind of external threat, we cannot be united simply by our common humanity.

Religions are perhaps the most unifying force in human history. I’d say the only other rival is the nation state.

Obviously both of these can also divide, but our species evolved in an environment of competition as well as cooperation so that’s what we are stuck with.

What do you see as a most less divisive force that can bind large groups of humans over long periods of time?

Yeah fair enough, each to their own. What about spirituality and science?

 

[Madsaac]

I am not entirely sure of what you said here. I agree that anything that differentiates people can be a source of division and violence. But humans are diverse people by nature. We cannot be made uniform (forcibly making everyone conform to a set standard is another type of extremism). The thing that must change is prejudice against people who are different than "me". But such a change in human psychology is going to take a looooong time.

Yes you are right. What about science and spirituality?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Yes you are right, problems can arise when we declare our beliefs superior to others. How you do it, can be problematic. And some things may need to be said, I'm not sure about you but a patriarchal society is not one I want to live in and certain religions do harbour these beliefs. In nature, man and woman are just as important as one another.

And, I only said that I don't feel a need for an external creative force or a religion to feel spiritual.

Anyway the point of the thread is spirituality and science.

I agree that science and spirituality are not incompatible. There have been occasions in human history when science and religion were not compatible, but religion and spirituality are two distinct, though closely related, phenomena. Indeed, there are occasions I’m sure, where religion and spirituality aren’t particularly compatible.

None of this makes religion redundant, in my view. Religious institutions are man made, therefore imperfect, often misguided, and subject to corruption; as all human institutions are. But at their best, they provide humans with the means to become united with each other, with the rest of nature, and with God. And yes, I believe in God, though I’m not particularly religious.

I like the Sagan quote btw. I find it quite inspired.

 

[sayak83]

Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognise our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.
The late Carl Sagan, American astrophysicist

A person doesn't need god or the supernatural to understand the world or to help makes decisions. We have the inner spirituality of nature, experience and science to do that.

On your topic, science can be a source of both secular or religious spirituality.
Secular spirituality you yourself said.
Further, Many religions see nature as an expression of God, a creation of God or even an aspect of God. So, insights into the nature of Nature by science can be seen as another way by which one can meditate on God.