Science can only discover what G-d has already created/evolved in nature?

[leibowde84]

You can't win this by asserting your beliefs over mine.

I have already stated....no comfort.

do again and get reported.

My beliefs over yours?! I didn't express my beliefs in that comment, so I'm not sure what you mean.

You explicitly explained that (at least part) of your reasoning for believing in an afterlife is the fact that, without an afterlife, our experience ends "in the grave". You said something along the lines of, "do you really want to live a life knowing that you will merely be put into the ground?!", that life without an afterlife would be meaningless. According to this, you put "comfort" in the knowledge that life doesn't end in the grave as your reasoning for belief in an afterlife. This was your claim, not mine. I didn't express any of my beliefs in that comment.

You can claim again and again that you don't use this comfort in knowing that life doesn't end in the grave as reasoning, but you explicitly stated that it was previously. I will gladly provide your comment if you would like.

 

[Thief]

My beliefs over yours?! I didn't express my beliefs in that comment, so I'm not sure what you mean.

You explicitly explained that (at least part) of your reasoning for believing in an afterlife is the fact that, without an afterlife, our experience ends "in the grave". You said something along the lines of, "do you really want to live a life knowing that you will merely be put into the ground?!", that life without an afterlife would be meaningless. According to this, you put "comfort" in the knowledge that life doesn't end in the grave as your reasoning for belief in an afterlife. This was your claim, not mine. I didn't express any of my beliefs in that comment.

You can claim again and again that you don't use this comfort in knowing that life doesn't end in the grave as reasoning, but you explicitly stated that it was previously. I will gladly provide your comment if you would like.

Your paraphrasing isn't sharp enough.

 

[leibowde84]

You can't win this by asserting your beliefs over mine.

I have already stated....no comfort.

do again and get reported.

"It's one way or the other....
You will continue after your last breath, moving on to a spiritual life.....or...
you will follow your body into the box and then into the grave."

- Here is your comment. It is clear that your reasoning here is based on the "comfort" provided by the belief that we don't "follow our bodies into the box and then into the grave". Your words, not mine.

 

[leibowde84]

Your paraphrasing isn't sharp enough.

I provided YOUR EXACT words in my next comment.

 

[leibowde84]

I lean to the greater 'likelihood' when I reason.
I don't wish for anything.
I have hope....founded in firm speculation.

How is this not a wish?

wish
wiSH/
verb
1. feel or express a strong desire or hope for something that is not easily attainable; want something that cannot or probably will not happen.

noun
1. a desire or hope for something to happen.

 

[idav]

For any claim and reason on behalf of science, please quote from:

• A peer reviewed article published in a science journal of repute
• From a text book of science
• Please mention the specific science discipline that deals with it.

Thread open for Theists and the Atheists alike.
Regards

In a way yes. Science is observing things that already exist but isnt observing anything created, whatever label they want to put on their version of a universe factory makes little difference..

 

[Milton Platt]

This thread is a bit difficult to parse, indeed.

Its title is



And that is more of a premise than a question.

If there is a God that created existence itself, who might possibly know whether he chose to make existence "complete" or instead as some sort of germen that would later develop on ways that he would not necessarily know in advance? We can only speculate, guess.

Then again perhaps a creator God would see fit to hide part of what is real from science for some reason. Or for that matter, maybe from religion as well. Who would know?

As for the request in the opening post, I don't think I understood it very well. Taken literally, it is a request for a complete list of statements "on behalf of science", with qualified and categorized sources.

But what is a statement on behalf of science? Science is a tool, not an employer or master.

It is difficult to give adequate answer to a request that I understand so little of.

If there is a god who created "existence itself" then he has to have created himself otherwise he would not exist. If you wish to speculate as to what a god might or might not do, try this:

How do you know beyond reasonable doubt that it is a benevolent god rather than one who just wants you to think he/she/it is??? Could you honestly say that you could fathom the thinking of such a being?

 

[Milton Platt]

In a way yes. Science is observing things that already exist but isnt observing anything created, whatever label they want to put on their version of a universe factory makes little difference..

can you define "created"?

 

[paarsurrey]

If there is a god who created "existence itself" then he has to have created himself otherwise he would not exist. If you wish to speculate as to what a god might or might not do, try this:

How do you know beyond reasonable doubt that it is a benevolent god rather than one who just wants you to think he/she/it is??? Could you honestly say that you could fathom the thinking of such a being?

Yes, from His Word truthful, secure and pristine word, one could tell.
Regards

 

[Milton Platt]

Yes, from His Word truthful, secure and pristine word, one could tell.
Regards

Are you just not comprehending what I wrote in the last post? You just said god created himself. How can something that does not exist create anything, much less create itself?

 

[paarsurrey]

Are you just not comprehending what I wrote in the last post? You just said god created himself. How can something that does not exist create anything, much less create itself?

I never said that G-d created himself.
G-d existed always.
Regards

 

[Milton Platt]

I never said that G-d created himself.
G-d existed always.
Regards

You said that god created existence. I took that to mean that before he created existence, nothing existed.

 

[paarsurrey]

You said that god created existence. I took that to mean that before he created existence, nothing existed.

I meant human existence. G-d is Existence in absolute sense, our is bestowed by Him, that is why we do dies, G-d is Eternal.
Thanks and regards

 

[Milton Platt]

I meant human existence. G-d is Existence in absolute sense, our is bestowed by Him, that is why we do dies, G-d is Eternal.
Thanks and regards

Oh, I misunderstood what you were saying.....every now and then I go blonde.

 

[idav]

can you define "created"?

Science is observing things that already exist and change form. Creation would be something new hat didn't exist in a prior form.

 

[Milton Platt]

Science is observing things that already exist and change form. Creation would be something new hat didn't exist in a prior form.

You are assuming without sufficient evidence that 1) there is some sort of god 2) it is the god you are thinking of 3) there was a time when there was nothing 4) your god is eternal.

Also, if there was a god and it is your eternal god, then there never was a time when there was nothing, unless your god is nothing.

As far as I can tell, this is made up stuff.