Science standards under threat in Arizona

[Audie]

And yet those people thought they were being good Christians. Who are you to say they weren't? They would probably say you aren't a good Christian. How can someone on the outside determine who is the "right" Christian and who is the "wrong" Christian?

I could have also cited the Westboro Baptist Church. They also think they're doing God's work.


I don't claim to be a Christian, I don't believe in any God(s) and I don't think Jesus Christ was the Messiah. So I don't know why you would call me a Christian since I make no claim to being one. That would just be silly, but have at it, if you want.


That solves nothing.

I doubt any of our christians here would satisfy
the inquisition with the purity of their faith.

No more than I am convinced of the purity of
anyone's motive, making it up that a
specified group"loves" to bring up that grim
era in christian history.

 

[Bear Wild]

If you "can't/won't give a percentage," that means you are categorically uncertain what is myth, what is fact. Interestingly, you think Noah's Flood is a myth, despite all the details given like construction of ship, size, carrying load, design, days of Flood, etc., etc. and Jesus's resurrection is myth, despite over 10 post-resurrection appearances recorded by multiple authors to up to over 500 witnesses, etc.

If I give you my Bible and a pen to cross off the myths, you can't or won't do it, so how can you help me "escape my Christian delusion"? You're not much help.

Just admit it, if it's supernatural and in the Bible, you don't want to believe it. Be honest!

As for assigning percentages that of course is impossible since no one has an accurate objective record when events happen which is true of most historical records in general but you are I am sure you know that. As for resurrection appearances they were not objectively recorded and there are people who see Odin appear to them to have a discussion or visit with Morrígan believe in what they see and hear. Details of a mythical event does not make it any more true when it clearly is not supported by anything in our world.
I do not want you to change your religion on my account. The myths written to those who believe them are powerful messages. Forcing them into actual events is missing the meaning otherwise we would have to accept that North America was create by mud from the bottom of the waters placed layers upon layers to create the land by animals. There are more details for this account if you need.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you "can't/won't give a percentage," that means you are categorically uncertain what is myth, what is fact. Interestingly, you think Noah's Flood is a myth, despite all the details given like construction of ship, size, carrying load, design, days of Flood, etc., etc. and Jesus's resurrection is myth, despite over 10 post-resurrection appearances recorded by multiple authors to up to over 500 witnesses, etc.

If I give you my Bible and a pen to cross off the myths, you can't or won't do it, so how can you help me "escape my Christian delusion"? You're not much help.

Just admit it, if it's supernatural and in the Bible, you don't want to believe it. Be honest!

We know that the Noah's Ark story is a myth because such an event predicts all sorts of results that we do not observe.

And I have reason to doubt your "10 post -resurrection" claim. We know that only Paul claimed that 500 people saw Jesus but this appears to be a manufactured claim. If that many people saw him you would think that there would be far more reports of his resurrection.

 

[gnostic]

and Jesus's resurrection is myth, despite over 10 post-resurrection appearances recorded by multiple authors to up to over 500 witnesses, etc.

500 witnesses and yet, not of them provided any record.

Sounds like exaggeration.

 

[Subduction Zone]

500 witnesses and yet, not of them provided any record.

Sounds like exaggeration.

Or a made up story. Paul told that one in Rome where there would not be enough people from Jerusalem around to refute him.

 

[Audie]

Or a made up story. Paul told that one in Rome where there would not be enough people from Jerusalem around to refute him.

Ifn "Jesus" had appeared to Pilate,
and asked if he'd care to try again,
or Caesar for that matter, asked HIM
"Why persecuteth.." .

Things wouldda turned out mighty different.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That’s a absurd challenge, BB.

But haven't you said there are no supernatural alien beings? Does that not require omniscience in a universe of this size?

 

[BilliardsBall]

500 witnesses and yet, not of them provided any record.

Sounds like exaggeration.

12 of the 500 wrote NT books. How many books have you written? What motivates writers to write, in the face of persecution for their beliefs?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I used to call myself a Christian. I no longer consider myself one.

If someone tells me they're a Christian, I believe them. That's my "definition."
Like I said, when you guys can figure it out among yourselves, please be sure to let the rest of us know.

Otherwise, I'd like to get off this tangent to nowhere and get back to what we were actually talking about.

Okay, you're a Christian, let's agree on a definition of Christian, since I'm open, so you can be a part of the solution, instead of posing a straw man problem. When "we guys" figure it out, we can move forward... or do you not know than in any field of human knowledge, we must first define terms?

 

[BilliardsBall]

And yet those people thought they were being good Christians. Who are you to say they weren't? They would probably say you aren't a good Christian. How can someone on the outside determine who is the "right" Christian and who is the "wrong" Christian?

I could have also cited the Westboro Baptist Church. They also think they're doing God's work.


I don't claim to be a Christian, I don't believe in any God(s) and I don't think Jesus Christ was the Messiah. So I don't know why you would call me a Christian since I make no claim to being one. That would just be silly, but have at it, if you want.


That solves nothing.

You are making my point for me. Westboro Baptist will draw press for having 7 people attend a protest, when by your definition, another 100 million Christians in America did not protest.

I know I'm doing God's work, I determine who is and isn't, you're on the outside, so how can you by your definition above tell me I'm wrong?

 

[BilliardsBall]

There's no evidence of a worldwide flood ever occurring. Claims from the Bible are simply that .... claims. They are not evidence of anything.

So again, where can we read the testimonies of these 500 witnesses you cite? We both know they don't exist and so that is just another claim as well.

Sorry, but it looks like you've demonstrated that you're the one who can't decipher myth from fact.

12 of the 500 wrote NT books. How many books have you written? What motivates a person to write in the face of persecution for their writing?

 

[gnostic]

But haven't you said there are no supernatural alien beings?

Why do you think aliens have to be supernatural?

Have you any ET alien before?

Why do you think the law of physics don’t apply to aliens?

You have been either reading too many sci-fi books or watching too many sci-fi movies or tv. You are deluded as those who claimed to be abducted by aliens or that the Earth would suffered from alien invasions.

 

[SkepticThinker]

500 witnesses and yet, not of them provided any record.

Sounds like exaggeration.

I've pointed that out numerous times to BB.

 

[SkepticThinker]

12 of the 500 wrote NT books. How many books have you written? What motivates writers to write, in the face of persecution for their beliefs?

Writing about one's beliefs while facing persecution doesn't make one's beliefs true though, does it?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Okay, you're a Christian, let's agree on a definition of Christian, since I'm open, so you can be a part of the solution, instead of posing a straw man problem. When "we guys" figure it out, we can move forward... or do you not know than in any field of human knowledge, we must first define terms?

I am not a Christian.

Straw man problem? Christians can't even decide amongst themselves who is a "true" Christian and there are thousands of different varieties of Christianity in existence. So, where's the straw man?

I'd rather not spend a bunch of time on something that isn't going to produce fruitful answers, especially when that something is a tangent from the actual discussion in progress.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are making my point for me. Westboro Baptist will draw press for having 7 people attend a protest, when by your definition, another 100 million Christians in America did not protest.

So? Those millions of other Christians could be wrong. Or vice versa. Who knows?

I know I'm doing God's work, I determine who is and isn't, you're on the outside, so how can you by your definition above tell me I'm wrong?

Uh huh. The inquisitors and the Westboro Baptist Church believe(d) the same thing. Muslims believe they're worshiping the "right" God. Hindus believe they're worshiping the "right" gods. And on and on.

The point is, how can we determine who is actually right (or wrong)?

 

[SkepticThinker]

12 of the 500 wrote NT books. How many books have you written? What motivates a person to write in the face of persecution for their writing?

Irrelevant to the point of discussion.

How about answering the relevant questions from my post, please.

And if you can't back up the claim about 500 people being witness to an event, why do you keep making it over and over?

 

[Bear Wild]

12 of the 500 wrote NT books. How many books have you written? What motivates a person to write in the face of persecution for their writing?

For Darwin it was representing the truth despite the persecution he went through. His observations, however, were visible to anyone to see. That makes the difference in something believable or not.

 

[gnostic]

12 of the 500 wrote NT books. How many books have you written? What motivates writers to write, in the face of persecution for their beliefs?

Sorry, it was one thing for Paul to proclaim 500 witnesses of the resurrected Jesus, but it is another things that none of these witnesses presented their own written testimonies.

Paul’s claim is just that, a claim that we have no way to substantiate.

You keep repeating yourself, but it doesn’t negate that such claim to be baseless, both yours and Paul’s.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Sorry, it was one thing for Paul to proclaim 500 witnesses of the resurrected Jesus, but it is another things that none of these witnesses presented their own written testimonies.

Paul’s claim is just that, a claim that we have no way to substantiate.

You keep repeating yourself, but it doesn’t negate that such claim to be baseless, both yours and Paul’s.

That would be true, except 12 NT writers represent a collection of witnesses/documents. Would you need to hear more than 12 witnesses in a criminal trial?